Lyonar: From Budget to Diamond to...?


#1

Ho there!

I’ve only discovered Duelyst two weeks ago after the recent RockPaperShotgun article but I’m loving it! After getting my feet wet and trying to learn all the basics, I started to grind the ladder and searched the web for some pointers on what to do and what to craft. I’ve found a couple of lists here and there, but I thought I might share my own experience which worked for me in the current meta. Maybe some other newbies find it useful as a general direction on what to craft and where to go. At least if they like the holy knights as much as I do :slight_smile:

So this is the Lyonar list that got me to Diamond. The total cost is 2210, which was easily doable using the free Spirit Orbs you get from the Humble Bundle and the daily quest gold.

From what I’ve seen on the web and other budget lists, it seems fairly straight forward. The only notable exclusions might be: Primus Fist, Repulsor Beast, Saberspine Tiger and maybe Sun Wisp, Blaze Hound and Slo. I found the first three to be very narrow in their usability. They can be awesome for pushing through the last points of damage but are rather lackluster in the mid-game where they trade poorly or just create shortlived tempo. The latter three on the other hand seem to demand a value-type, control-ish deck, but seem to have way too little of an impact in order to justify their inclusion in a deck that tries to generate card value. But I don’t know. Maybe I just don’t see in them what everybody else does.

So that’s why those six cards aren’t in the list. I’ve tried only to include cards that have the potential of creating card advantage in order to starve out your opponent. The deck doesn’t try to rush or combo-kill the enemy on turn 4 or 5. It’s possible, but Lyonar – at least from my budget point of view and a hundred games on ladder – seems far too inconsistent to me to play that sort of role. But it shines as an artrition-type deck which just out-values the opponent. At least it did so for me. I’ll see what Diamond level play holds :smiley:

As for the cards that are in there: pretty standard from what I’ve read. Most are 3ofs because you want to see them all the time, with the only exception being Sun Bloom, Tempest and Divine Bond. Those are only 2ofs, because Sun Bloom usually is a tempo loss and card disadvantage because it always leaves behind minions. But I feel like it’s necessary to have at least some sort of dispel at range to deal with Vetruvian obelisks and such. Tempest is a 2of because it’s mostly useful against Abyssian and not much else outside of the occasional early game 2-for-1, but when you can use it, it’s amazing. Lastly, Divine Bond is a straight-up finisher in the late game/occasional mid game so you have plenty of time to find one of your two copies and you never really want to use it to just trade one of your minions with a bigger one essentially 2-for-1-ing yourself.

The rest are 3ofs because I’ve read that this is what all the cool kids do.

My question now is: where to go next?

What are good upgrades? I’ve looked through the list of craftable cards and nothing really stood out to me. My only ideas would be:

Arclyte Regalia: This cards is great when it works (at least it always was for my opponents) but I feel like it’s more of a tempo and/or win-more card than a control card. Also leaves my opponent to much room to handle it before I can gain full value out of the full three attacks/four mana investment.

Solarius: I guess he’s good? But he is quite expensive and I’m usually more than happy with my Sojourners. Because of the high density of threats that your opponent must answer, the Sojourners usually stay on the field for a couple of hits which nets enough cards to win the game. Not sure if Solarius is even an upgrade seeing how he comes at a higher cost and a weaker body.

Dioltas: Seems super sweet. The Obelisk can easily be pumped by the BBS multiple times grantings lots of value. The only doubt I have is his meager 3 toughness and no immediate board impact. Would love to test this one to see how it plays out in actual matches. Replacement for the Shieldmaster as both fill similar roles? But is it really better? Would love to hear some more experienced Lyonar players :smiley:

Sunset Paragon: The card text reads beautifully and it might be a straight upgrade to Dancing Blades. Once again the only doubt I have is its tiny body. The Blades leave a 4/6 behind which is a threat on its own, wheras the pink unicorn doesn’t impress anyone. Again: how does he play out? Alternatively Deathblighter might also be good, but he costs one more mana than the Blades/the Unicorn and I’ve had the experience that turn 5 is usually a good time to start regaining the tempo advantage and costing 6 might just be a bit too prohibitve.

Bonereaper: Potentially a new high end of the deck. Has a huge butt, Provoke and an immediate board effect with the potential for trading with multiple cards. I feel like this would be the most obvious upgrade to the deck, but I have yet to see anyone playing it in a ranked match. How comes? Feels super good to me. Might even replace the Ironcliffs, because Airdrop rarely ever felt relevant to me and I would gladly pay the extra mana for his aura of death.

Kron: everybody’s darling. Would be perfect for the deck. Provoke, big butt, built in card advantage. But I’m not sure if he’s even that good. I have never played with him but every single time someone played him against me, I just traded 1-for-1 – at worst 2-for-1 – and some General life. I have yet to see him do anything super imbalanced, but maybe I was just lucky or Lyonar is unusually good at dealing with him. The question would be, what he would replace. Probably the Ironcliffs?

Alright, those are my collected noob thoughts on Lyonar :smiley: I’m mostly torn on what to remove from the deck. I feel so emotionaly attached to all my sweet basic and common cards D:

I hope some experienced Lyonar players could give me some pointers as to where to go form here and what to craft and such. And maybe my experience/list helps some noobies who are in the same situation as I was a while ago.

Cheers (:


New player, looking for help with deck composition
#2

Arclyte Regalia does not lose durability if you don’t take damage via its effect, might influence your decision making.

Also, this looks like there’s no clear win condition outside of Divine Bond + something meaty; why not have three of them? As a followup question, why not include Suntide Maiden? She works better with Afterblaze than most of your other cards, a great DB target, and is reasonably useful even if dispelled. Considering every single one of your minions bar one has an effect (which makes them liable to get hit collaterally), and you have other removal effects, is Lightbender warranted that slot over Suntide or Regalia?


#3

-3 blades -3 bender -3 afterblaze -1 marty -2 tempest
+3 krons +3 dioltas +3 regalia +3 healing mystic

I quickly skimmed over the deck and this is what I’d do to make it more reliable. Basically lay of the removals and situational spells and put in more minions that can abuse the spells you have left to the greater effect. Regalia isn’t a spell but is a pretty good card so I slammed it in, if you feel you don’t have enough removal feel free to ditch one of them for a lightbender or something.


#4

Keeping to the budget theme replace your Sojourners with Sun Wisps. IMO Sojourner is too slow and the ability to draw for 2 mana immediately late game is invaluable. Remove both tempests and a Lightbender for 3 Blistering Skorn. The value of a 3/3 body after the AOE should not be underestimated and Lightbender while being nice seems to always be played when you have lost board control which you shouldn’t as Lyonar (of course not every game goes perfectly).

With what you were saying about Bonereaper, it is great card but if you do include it make sure to never play it on 6 (unless you know it’s a net deck/RIP originality) as when you get Zenrui’d (and you will :cry:) you will be devastated. Always make sure to BBS it same turn to stop that from happening.

My main advise to you is always think about what your opponent is going to play. Even without 10000000000 Legendaries you can still outclass a lot of players with proper placement and timing. Having a good idea of what your opponent is going to do next can turn the advantage of almost any game.


#6

Thanks for all the replies!

It feels like the restrictions are rather cruel though. I can only kill something up to 4 health and it can’t retaliate for more than 2. Seems very narrow. But I guess I will just have to try it out to see how good it is

The win condition is to win through attrition. At some point the opponent is down to his 1 card per turn while I have 3-4 minions on board. At that point is doesn’t matter much what else I have. The sheer numbers are enough to kill the enemy. The Divine Bond and the Afterblaze are only in there to be able to threaten lethal out of nowhere in the case that a minion survives the rounds in the early game. Afterblaze + Divine Bond even on a 2/1 Azurite Lion deliver 18 damage which is usually enough to put away the game. And it does show up surprisingly often. The question is, whether the deck really needs those outs or could just forego those 5 cards and concentrate fully on the attrition route. That way I lose some win% because I won’t win before turn 8 or so anymore, but my late game would benefit drasticaly. Divine Bond is only a 2of because every opponent knows to burn down every minion Lyonar plays so the chance for an early kill only comes up every now and then and unless you feel like that chance is viable the Divine Bond is a wasted card in the early game. So 2 feels like a good number to allow me to draw into it eventually but not have it stay in my hand throughout the early game. Afterblaze is in 3 times because it often replaces itself.

I think the Maiden is rather weak because she has no immediate impact on the board. But I might be wrong.

Lightbender is amazing. Very rarely does his Dispel hit your own units. You can almost always play him in a way which only hits intended targets. Test it out. You almost never hit your own dudes. Lightbender feels like one of the strongest cards in the deck. It would be amazing if it were 3/4, but even as a 3/3 it most often finds a trade.

That’s a lot of removal gone. Especially the Benders seem very very strong. At least the were up to Diamond/in Diamond. Is S-Rank so different?

Blades are something I’d like to replace long term, so those are a good candidate for a cut. Same for Afterblaze. Outside of the occasional burst kill they don’t do all that much. Might ditch the Divine Bond along with them and just go full control. Often times it might already be enough for the opponent to think that I got them in the deck to make him go for unfavorable trades instead of really having them.That would open up 11 cards.

I don’t quite get the Healing Mystic though? Just for being a 2 drop? The games I usually play with the deck are long and drawn out. I feel like 2 lives barely make a big of a difference. The deck isn’t trying to win quickly, so I found it often times better to play a 3-drop in turn 1 or to come back from a missed 2-drop turn 1 but relying on 3 more good value cards in the late game. The deck barely has issues with aggressive decks due to all the defensive Provoke minions and all the removal.

That’s the game plan of the deck. To be slow and to slowly starve the opponent out. Sojourner seems perfect for that because he most often draws multiple cards. I’d play Sun Wisp in a more aggressive decks which cares about the 2-drop/2 power and just wants cheap draw, no?

Definitely going to try that out!

Thanks for all the feedback! Please don’t take my words as outright denial, I’m just trying to understand all the theory behind the different card picks. Looks like I will go for Kron and the Regalia for now. Thanks! :smiley:


#7

You can check out my similar list which got me to S-Rank. Card choices are detailed in the comments.


#8

It’s a lot better than it looks. It does allow you to hit the enemy general for 4 and not take strikeback. It allows you to kill a 2 drop for free on the turn you play it and forces your opponent to find 4 separate instances of damage to break it or else it’ll keep generating value. Widely considered one of the, if not THE absolute best artifact in the game.


#9


#10

I am diamond lyonar too(I didn’t choose them, the cards chose me…), and my deck is pretty similar.
I think you need more 2 cost minions.
Not getting one 2 cost on turn 1 as player 1, or 2 as player 2 can easily lose you the game.
healing mystic is not great as turn 1, but it’s better than not playing anything.
I went from Tempest to Blistering skorn: it works as well against Lilithe, and leaves a body behind.
Krons is definitely great. He eats a removal, which helps leting your Ironcliffe Guardian, or Azurite Lion survive one turn for the kill.
Kron’s minions vary wildly, but some are also pretty strong.
I would keep the afterblaze, because it helps get value out of divine bond late game (I once had a 8/6 pando finish the enemy general with AB+DB). You cannot lethal reliably with lions without it, so it leaves the Ironcliffe guardians as the only lethal threat.


#11