Let's talk Thumping wave


#1

I had a bad experience back then for typing out of frustration and I will try to refrain that same thing from happening again.

Topic: Is thumping wave just fine as it is? Or is it too strong?
Like I feel that card itself is ridiculously good, you can use it to just face race ur opponent if needed. As that is usually how magmar functions, remove minions, fight for board, hit face with their bbs and high attack minions, and makantor jesus usually closes up the game.

But my main concern is not really the +5 attack as u need a minion to function, it’s the other half of the text. "transform a minion into a 3-3 Kin (battlepet) at the end of the turn. It’s one of the cleanest removals in the game for 3 mana o.o

For instance, Abyssian has to destroy a minion and trigger deathwishes for 5. Same for Vetruvians as they have to destory a minion nearby for 4. Lyonar has matyrdom that heals the opponent for destorying a minion completely. Vanar is known for having cheap and efficient removals but they dont always remove the entire body. Songhai has a 3 mana transform into an unattack-able 0-2 panda (which is also too cheap imo), But thumping wave just transforms a minion into a 3-3 kin that kills itself when u place ur magmar general next to it with bbs+1, as that’s when u usually use thumping wave; when the big guys drop down and both players can use their bbs for at least once now.

Like isnt it too good for 3 mana? Looking for feedback, just curious about the power level of the card.


Nerf Discussion: Thumping Wave
Let's discuss Thumping Wave
#2

It’s a way worse removal compared to fox and is used in such a way only in dire circumstances. It’s also worse than shadow reflection as the buff isn’t permanent and in most scenario it turns your minion into a weaker one, implying it lives. The card is good however because despite it’s individual effects being worse than those card, it gives you flexibility. Is that flexibility too strong? I heavily doubt it. Nerf any aspect of the card and it would be significantly worse and most likely unplayable.


#3

The card is definitely very powerful, but while getting a bunch of nerfs this is almost the only thing that magmar got from shim’zar (with mandrake), so I guess it is fair.

Beside the card is interesting to play with, since you always have to think whether you should use for removal or pump which sometimes is not obvious (beside rabbits are cute).

Regarding the actual fun value of the card , it definitely unables insane burst of out of hand damage when combine with a rush minion (9 damage with makantor, 10 with elucidator) which is definitely a big problem IMO, but as I said a billlion times on this forum, that is the fault of rush minions not really thumping wave itself.

Just rework rush CP plz.


#4

But the problem with this card is that it turns it into a battle pet, aspect of the fox turns it into a minion that the opponent can control, position or trade into smethg. But a 3-3 battle pet with amgmar’s bbs is as if the card reads “take 3 and remove a minion without triggering dying wishes”.

As for turning a minion into a weaker one is sometimes the case but most of the times isnt. Take makantor for example, if he makantors me with thumping wave on my general, making it a 4-2 which I can remove with my general with 2 attack; instead, it turns it into a 3-3 which makes removing it way more awkward.

As for the flexiblity, arent flexibilities supposed to be higher costed? but as it is, it seems to be way efficient for 3 mana. However, as for nerfing it, maybe change the 3-3 battle pet into a normal minion for your opponent and a battlepet if used on a friendly? Or maybe changing the word from “transform” to “destroy”?


#5

It seems every good card get it’s “plz nerf”-thread these days. This time: Thumping Wave.
Boring.


#6

This time I felt like the topic was reasonable and also formulated in a measured manner, so it was fine by me.


#7

Probably because they’re “good” like you said yourself and as such they’re easy to overvalue as difference between good and broken can often be really small.


#8

I took all those into consideration. Flexibility does come at the cost. The cost is how each of the options is worse on their own compared to the cards with said individual effects. I explained it all in my post. The removal aspect of it is quite frankly garbage and I fail to see why you see it as a problem. And the buffing aspect is the typical 3 mana +5 damage which usually downgrades your minion. Both of your suggestions make the card needlessly complicated and just plain awkward from game design perspective.

At 4 mana the card would be utter garbage.


#9

Arent cards supposed to be complicated to keep it from being too powerful if the flexiblity or the power levels of it might get out of hand? At 4 mana it might be fine as it is still considered a clean removal for being able to answer huge minions.

As for how the effect is worse than the individual cards might be subjective for the shadow reflection. For 3 you give a perm buff of +5, but the weak body you traded in with stays, eg. a 5-1, 6-2 . It is easier to be removed if u have let’s scorn or maybe a 2 drop to trade in, but worse if you dont have answers. But as a 3-3, you need more than a two drop or some form of buff to kill it off. However, it is a battle pet and most of the time if you are behind on board, you ignore it as it hits ur face itself, but arent u taking a possibly 3 or 6 or more damage in the process?

And I do not think the removal is garbage. It doesnt trigger dying wishes. Let’s say an aymara is dropped and it gets thumping waved, it becomes a 3-3 that kills itself because this card is only played by magmar ;by that time they are usually at 3+attack cause of their bbs. If you compare it to aspect of the fox, it is arguable that thumping wave costs 2 more when compared for the flexibility it provides, but aspect of the fox is not a battle pet, it can be used to position, trade into smethg. It does a lot more than a 3-3 battle pet. And like I mentioned, magmars are usually at 3+ attack, the battle pet just kills itself off.


#10

3 mana removal which turns the enemy into a 3/3 pet at the start of enemy turn is factually garbage. You can phrase it whatever the way you want but the facts don’t change. Just compare it to any other removal and you’ll see how inferior it is. Woah, you can use it as a worse Egg Morph to deny Dying Wishes. Big deal, that’s not how it works. You don’t value the card based on the best case scenario. The only reason its used as a removal is because it’s slot efficient.

Anyway, you are free to believe what you want. I stated my points and you can chose to disregard them or to take something from them, I honestly don’t care and I’m not going to participate in this any longer. There’s nothing more for me to say anyway and we’re just going in circles.


#11

This is the only hard removal spell that can also deal a reasonable amount of damage to face. Removal that also deals face damage is inherently powerful. In Duelyst, Thumping Wave, Phoenix Fire, Falcius, and maybe Saberspine Tiger are the only cards where going face or trading for minions are equally viable plays. This makes it so these cards can deal with your opponent’s threats while you are behind and, when you control the board, deal a lot of damage. As such, all three of these “burst-removals” are top tier cards.

As for the power level, this card would naturally be strong due to its versatility. Personally, I don’t mind if interesting cards like this one are slightly above curve. When played on an enemy, this is worse than many other removals of similar cost. However, the Magmar player may have some neat combos with Taygete and Sunsteel.

:crocodile:______________​:rabbit2::rabbit2::rabbit2:


#12

Personally I think that the meta is far too fast at the moment. Right now we are at the point that if you miss your turn 1 play, you might as well concede. The meta has to either slow down or opening hands are made more consistent i.e. more than two mulligans, however that runs into the problem of benefiting mech decks disproportional more than other decks. Atleast I would wish that mulliganed cards could not be redrawni.e. my one copy of dominate will does not end up back in my hand after I mulligan it…

On vanar and their removals. Yes they have an absurd amount of removals, fox,alter beast,hailstone,chromatic cold being the efficient ones. With quite a few being rather niche(drake,mountain,and the stuns). Frankly if their removals are reworked to be more fair, then the faction needs to be reworked quite a bit. Since the faction lacks good card draw outside of cryogensis, and kara’s bbs would be far stronger if they had good card draw. The removal is only “balanced” by the fact that vanar can not really capitalize on the tempo gained from it since they have rather limited resources due to lack of draw. They are kind of like a reverse warlock from hearthstone.

If I was to change anything about thumping wave, it would be lowering the attack buff from 5 to 4 so that it is not as good as shadow reflection in finishing games. However I would prefer a complicated rework of many other mechanics/systems so that the current card is more of a tech choice so to speak.


#13

How would you change ruch mechanic? :confused:
I honestly find it fine having played both MTG (Piloted Naya Burn for about 2 years) and Hearthstone in the past.


#14

Ideas were to split being able to attack and move instantly upon playing the cards in different keywords or simply leave the rush as the keyword as it is but you can only do one of said two actions. Personally the best thing to do is just to remove all spells that give rush as well as neutral rush minions.


#15

Burst in general is just way too strong at the moment. It’s gross.


#16

For burst, it’s no better than shadow reflection, and turns your minion into a 2 mana cost amu (if it’s alive)

For removal, an important thing I think is that it removes it at the END of your turn, meaning you cant move past it or remove provoke

Don’t get me wrong, it’s still great, and I like it a lot, but it’s not strong enough to warrant a nerf


#17

Nah, I just find the “transform” part a bit annoying as I play vet because it just ignores dying wish. I just secretly hope that it is reworded to destroyed haha because I keep getting jesus makantor-ed to the point I need healing and this pops out =.=
But yeah, just wanna have a look at how the community sees this card as it is.


#18

I think the card isn’t broken itself, in fact it’s pretty much mediocre, but some faction synergy cards like makator can make it really good. It’s not “op” enough to be nerfed though, and it’ll give magmar another helping hand of becoming more competitive.


#19

Rush minions are not comparable to haste creature in magic simply because in duelyst creatures are also removals. For example tiger in duelyst is kind of a lightning bolt that can be upgraded to absolute non sense if combined with other cards (buff spells, dire tide frenzy…) and can leave a 3/1 behind when attack a 1 attack minion … for reminder bolt is already the best red magic card ever, yeah MTG the game that has more than 40 thousand card is its card pool.

The change that I have suggested many times would be that rush minions would have to choose to attack or move when they arrive on the battlefield making them potentially as strong as before but a lot easier to play around.

This change does not fix the problem of spectral revenant, makantor and limit design space but ok…


#20

It specifically fixes the problem of design space actually. When there’s no spells that give rush you don’t have to worry about printing minions that might work to well with it, example being mechaz0r + sotw. And without rush neutrals you don’t have to worry about printing buff cards that are too good with it. I don’t have to tell you about the Tigers. With only faction based rush minions, it’s a lot easier to safely print a rush card as the only thing you have to worry about are the synergies with that faction alone. Sure there might be still some neutral minions that could still serve as buffs like primus fist but that’s a lot easier to manage compared to spells.