Let's talk Dreadnaught


#1

Okay I was rather confused a few days ago when I encountered a thread talking about “the most disappointing legendary” and saw that not one, but two people called out Dreadnaught. I asked them why but i never got a response. It comes as a bit of a shock to me as I run Dreadnaught in my deck and he’s always a solid drop. Though to be fair my deck is very unique (don’t ask for details its a secret). I feel like I need to ask, is Dreadnaught considered a bad card and if so why?


#2

For such an imposing legendary, his pixel art being amazing, his effect is so underwhelming and means little in the long run; in my experiences anyway.


#3

From my Experience, dreadnaught is a terrible card. It has incredibly Bad stats for its cost. Its effect is valuable, but only in The early Game. When dreadnaught Comes out The stat increase for The eggs is negligable and there is a distinct lack of rebirth minions that stay on The Board.

So in Short it is overcosted, has Bad stats and while its effect is good, it is not at The point dreadnaught is usually played.


#4

I think your wrong on all counts, the stats are solid and rebirth makes it rather powerful. On top of that I only have 3 rebirth minions, Dreadnaut included. If you can drop him before a Chrysalis burst (or the same turn as, in the late game) then you really see some immense gains, not to mention Silithar elder who just loves droping a nice health 2/3 egg set to grow into another Silithar next turn.


#5

I have several questions, The Most prominent of which is how you Manage to summon a dreadnaught and a chrysalis Burst in The same turn since that’s a 10 mana combo. Or do you Mean with flash reincarnation?

It’s combopower with silithar elder has More to do with silithar elder than with dreadnaught. Besides Most Games don’t really last Long enough to get Both out.

The stats Are pretty Bad though, imho, for it’s cost. Especially since it has no immediate threat on The Board compared to say, aymara healer or spectral revenant.


#6

@misanthropovore Well flash reincarnation can be part used for the same turn combo, though playing Dreadnaut one turn and Chrysalis burst the next works just fine.

No, the two cards synergize really well, the biggest weakness of Silithar elder is that its eggs are all too easily killed by literally anything. Dreadnaut gives silithar that exra bit of power that makes it a game winner

As for stats I can tell your not factoring in the rebirth at all and if you are you certainly aren’t factoring in the potential stat gain from its secondary effect. Giving 2/2 to each egg is monstrous.

The only minor hang up I would agree with you on is that it often lacks immediacy. I say that because that stat boost can offer a rather immediate edge in some scenarios, though noy always.


#7

6 Mana for 4/6 with Rebirth is terrible. You pay 2 extra mana from the baseline (Hailstone Golem) for Rebirth and effect only useful if it sticks to your next turn and you have the right cards to capitalize on its effect, or you have a board of rebirth minions ready to be used/eggs to be protected.

With amount of hard removal and dispel accessible to factions, summoning Dreadnaught nearly always results in tempo loss for you. With Flash, this becomes even worse as you have also lost value.

The combos you have stated can only occur if your lucky early game or in the late game. If these fail, you will be put behind as your opponent has been building/built their board and wincons. These combos are too easily countered and telegraphed; and when they do work your opponent at this stage has the means reduce or entirely negate the value gained, or have lethal ready.

Dreadnaught’s effect is stapled to the wrong minion. It’s too expensive to play and to capitalize on Dreadnaught without putting yourself at risk for tempo and value loss.

If it was moved to low cost, high health minion, as suggest by @misanthropovore it would enable EggMar Archetype to work.

It isn’t. Although the egg survivability is increased, you still get a 2/3 which dies to myriad of things.

EDIT: Not as coherent as I wanted. Currently studying for exams.


#8

I agree with both sides, kinda.

Dreadnought is an imposing pixel-art card that is understatted/costly and that can be used in decks revolving around eggs/rebirth in which it definitely has merit.

Playing such a deck myself I can definitely say people do not know Dreadnaught. I have had quite some opponents spend their turn killing dreadnought, forgetting the rebirth.
Also when playing, I often feel he reached the board too late, and Flash Reincarnation on him is definitely a big part of when I summon him at all.

I do wish Dreadnaught would have more utility in other decks (due to stats/rebirth alone) or come into play sooner.


#9

TBH, Dreadnought is far from a bad card., even without Chrysalis Burst. Simply improving your Young Silithars and Veteran Silithars is pretty strong. But, the major issue with Dreadnought is simply the opportunity cost of playing it over copies of Makantor Warbeast- An absolute workhorse. What makes Dreadnought difficult to play, is that you want to play it as a playset- a playset of a 6 drop that wants to be played with a playset of a 7 drop (Elder)- really cutting into space for Warbeast or neutral workhorses. Dreadnought protects your Rebirth minions, and swing around a strong 4/6 body- but it’s slow and defensive, in ways that Magmar is encouraged to avoid playing through access to tools like Thumping Wave, Warbeast, Elucidator etc.

TL;DR: Dreadnought is a good card, but you can’t smorc with it, and Magmar decks tend to want to smorc


#10

Heh thanks for agreeing with me, though I’m starting to see everyones issue with him now. Its not that he’s bad, its that everyone wants to run aggro/mid range magmar for faec stomping. My deck plays more like a swarm deck, utilizing tempo to gain the edge and keep the edge over my opponent.


#11

Dreadnaut is pretty situational for me, but on the occasions I do summon it, I am never disappointed. Yes a 2/3 egg still dies to a myriad of thing but not nearly as many as a 0/1. Plus don’t neglect the value of the egg being able to hit back, that tiny little survivablity increase does a lot especially if you can drop two or more eggs in a turn.


#12

hey can i know your rank?

also i’m one of those people that commented on the post and said dreadnaught.

now that i have seen your point of view of dreadnought that kinda opens up my mind and makes me think that magmar isn’t such a straightforward makantor or nothing faction, there are grow deck, pet deck, aggro deck, and now rebirth deck so yeah. it’s great to see it from your point of view.

i am trying to be as non offensive as possible but i asked your rank because i want to know, at what rank do this dreadnought strategy of yours is working.


#13

Well seeing as how I use him too in one of the decks with success I can answer as well I think?
I play him in Gold (very nearly Diamond, but that’s actually an accident, I am just trying out deck ideas).


#14

Dreadnoughts effect suffers from not having abusers for it, or put in another way: Its only viable in eggmar, which isn’t viable. Also Makantor.


#15

I am experimenting with Meggmar and it’s okay in Gold. I am not done trying to make it really good, but yes, I feel it’s too slow and costly mana-wise. But, like I said, it’s a challenge then, making it good, not convinced at all it cannot be done, yet.


#16

ah i see that’s cool, it works on higher gold then. thank you for the answer.
the OP seems extremely confident in his deck, that’s why i really want to know just how much a dreadnought deck can push you.


#17

That all are possibilities for Magmar but reality is different. Meta is fast and most of the time games end with a clash and don’t have a real endgame. I’d say if the games itself where slower cards like Dreadnought would have more value and Grow would have more value.

Also everything with Eggs is pretty slow. You have to have a) Rebirth Minion on board, b) Minion has to die, c) Egg has to spawn. To make this a thing CP has to support this archetype. What did they do in the past?

a) removed Veteran out of the game
b) give overcostet Dreadnought
c) give overcostet Artifact
d) give overcosted Tech card
(And they will nerf Chrysalis in future - remember me when it’s done. Community is already whining and they will do it - I’m shure.)

What did they miss? They miss to give us Eggs! There are not enough Eggs! Simple as that.
I don’t need the tools for something we don’t have. And if we had Eggs - the Mana cost for the tools to make them a thing is simply too high in a fast Meta.

Edit: And the Meta will not change. Look at the cards for next month: 6 stats for 1 Mana, 8 stats for 2 (OK - this one is meant to slow down the Meta. But I’m not shure if it sees much play. Mystic is simply more flexible.). Well - that’s Duelyst. I like that it’s fast. But some things simply don’t work with this tempo in the game.


#18

Yet every deck type you listed after runs x3
:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#19

That was an easy one. Every Magmar deck runs x3.


#20

Imho it’s straight up bad, overcosted for it’s stats and its effect, while welcome is useless as all hell, it requires huge setup to be effective and you risk (or more like you will) being countered by a silence, or a removal leeaving you with a huge tempo loss because let’s face it, the body is weak.

Rebirth is the only upside but then again, once it’s in egg form, it loses its buff.

Most underwhelming leg in Shim’zar alongside stampede. Magmar really got the short hand of the stick this expansion. Thank god for Gro or Thumping Wave.