Lets Talk #1: Mechaz0r


#1

Hey guys, quick intro to me and this series:
Something I’ve noticed is that is that the forums are often used by people to discuss or more often complain about certain cards (Notably Divine Bond, Sister Taygete, etc). One of the problems that I have is that people often just complain about these cards bringing pitchforks and torches, trying to rally people to nerf the cards they deem “overpowered” without fixing them. The other problem is that these discussions happen rarely, and only on one or two cards/topics, when there are many cards that need to be fixed and balanced. The purpose of this new series I’m starting “Let’s Talk” will hopefully bring regular discussion to the forums and will cover other cards outside of the popularly disliked cards. I would also like to say in advance that I am not the most experienced player, I am no professional, and I don’t know everything about card game design. I’m Diamond rank, and I’ve played for 5, going on 6 months now, and although I believe this gives me a good understanding of the game, i don’t want people to think that i am the voice of reason, or that i am always right, if you think i’m wrong about something, I’d love to hear what your opinion on the topic is, after all, that is the intended purpose of this new series. Enough of me rambling and onto our first topic.

Mechaz0r
So I absolutely love the idea surrounding Mechaz0r. He, or rather “It” is one of those great cards that with some work, and after building a deck around it instantly puts your opponent in a bad situation, and immediately sets you up to win the game by your next turn. That being said I believe that he is a bit too powerful and lenient.

  • ANY 5 Mechs will build Mechaz0r, considering their cheap cost, Mechaz0r can be summoned by the end of your second turn
  • Mechaz0r has almost every keyword ability in the game, and has a base stat line of 8/8, which is hard to kill as is, aside from the fact that he can’t be targeted by spells
  • Mechaz0r can be placed anywhere, and can’t be targeted by spells, making him nearly impossible to remove

Now, people will probably say well, that 5 mechs is quite alot, and you might even be dead by then, but what i find in most cases that people who play Mechaz0r decks have 3 of each of the mechs in the decks, which puts a total of 15 mechs (about half of your deck). Also, Mechaz0r can be summoned from any 5 of them, which makes him easier to summon and doesn’t really make sense when you think of the nature of Mechaz0r. Playing Mechaz0r seems to be a mindless endeavor and a cheap way to secure a win that requires little no strategy or experience.

Ways to fix these problems
Two ideas come to mind

  • Require Mechaz0r to be built by all 5 mech units
  • As i stated earlier, any 5 mechs can be used to construct Mechaz0r, which makes him far to easy to summon, and demotes strategy and deck diversity. This means that players would have to survive more than 2 or 3 turns in order to summon each one ofthe mechs. After all, it makes sense conceptually too, as you could not produce a completely constructed Mechaz0r with 3 cannons and 2 sets of wings (atleast I think), you would need a head, chasis and sword.
  • Mechaz0r’s abilities will be based on those used to construct him
  • This is an alternative to the first proposition above. If Mechaz0r is constructed with 3 cannons and 2 sets of wings as my example states above, it would make sense that Mechaz0r would only have Airdrop and Ranged, but would then miss out on Frenzy and being “untargetable by ANY spells”. I think would be an even better change because this would promote a new level of strategy and planning ahead to Mechaz0r decks. If you want Mechaz0r to have every keyword, then you’ll need each piece to achieve this, if you only care about Spell immunity, ranged and airdrop, then just summon those 3 and 2 extras of the same kind. The new card text for mechs could read “Progresses Mechaz0r build by 20%, and gives him (Keyword ability)”. This would also open the door for other mech units that could give Mechaz0r other abilities, such as Blast, Celebrity and Flying, which again, would diversify his playstyle and would added another level of strategy and reward to Mechaz0r, rather than the current one being :survive for a few turns and draw/replace cards mindlessly until you have summoned 5 mech units.

Side Note~
I’d love to see the mechs have a use outside of Mechaz0r. Mechs are one of the few neutral groups or tribes of units, yet theres no reason for them to be specified as “mechs” I’d like to see cards like "opening gambit: give all other mechs +1/+1, or “opening gambit: draw a mech from your deck”

Conclusion
I love the concept of a large game winning and game defining like Mechaz0r. What bothers me is the lack of strategy in playing him when there is so much potential, and that he is one of the only cards that you can solely build a deck around, and then use to win in one or two turns. I love concepts like these, but playing him seems to be mindless and frustrating to play against. I personally wouldn’t mind being destroyed by Mechaz0r decks so long as it seemed like this player actually put forward their strategy and experience to earn it. I don’t think Mechaz0r needs to be nerfed into oblivion so that he never sees the light of day again. Maybe I’m crazy because in actuality Mechaz0r decks are some of the worst ranked decks, and maybe there’s no need to bother because already nobody plays him (which i think would be even worse).

Thanks for reading if anyone actually got this far. This was pretty long…yeah… sorry about that. But i find that there’s no point in complaining about something if you don’t have a way to fix it. That being said, i really wanted to explain everything thoroughly as to avoid confusion. Let me know what you guys think. Am i crazy to think Mechaz0r is too strong? Or is Mechaz0r too easy to summon considering his power? Are my ideas to fix the problem good? Bad? Confusing? Have your own ideas? Let me know. Also, i was hoping to have more thorough conversations about some of the less discussed cards like Mechaz0r somewhat regularly. I have plenty of cards and topics i’d like to discuss(not nearly as long as this one), but if you’d like me to discuss something, let me know.


Mechazor Counterplay?
#2

Yes. Yes and yes.

It would be way to hard to summon him. Somtimes you can’t even have 5 mechs units so having all the 5 in one game ?
Chassis of mechaz0r is an epic card. It would mean that you’ll need to have an epic card to play Mechaz0r.
I mean, the idea isn’t that bad but it would be impossible to create a consistent Mech deck with this rule.
The problem with Mechaz0r imo is that it’s too luck based. You can summon him on your second turn or never find the 5 units in 10 turns. I think that Mechaz0r should be completely reworked to be usefull again. It was good with the 2 cards draw but now it’s pretty bad because it lacks of consistency


#3

I completely understand that requiring all five to be summoned to construct Mechaz0r would be hard, and like you said, its luck of the draw (The alternative option is far better overall). I feel that this could be made more consistent by adding more mech cards which could give players a more diverse set of options, or even create an addition mech that will draw another mech card from your deck when summoned or killed. This would help cycle cards to make summoning Mechaz0r more consistent, as well as expand the “mech” tribe as a whole, as being there are currently no synergies that affect mech cards even though they are specified (what i mean by this is that other tribes have synergies such as arcanyst, dervish, and vespyr).


#4

Mech decks are only braindead in a sense that sometimes you will luck out with a T3 mech and enemy will have no means in removing it. Just like sometimes you will run out of lack and not draw your 5 mechs for 10 turns. Playing the deck properly is a bit more than drawing 5 mechs and placing the mechazor in the corner. The decision making, especially involving SOTW and mechazor placement can prove quite difficult, there is lots of things to play around and to take into consideration.

I do realize it’s natural to think otherwise. Remembering the games where you get T3 mech-ed is far easier than remembering those where someone actually played smart.

This kills the deck.

This is an interesting idea which was suggested numerous times before and probably the best one. It does fix the problems with the deck, and it adds even more flavor and strategic aspect to it As long as it’s properly balanced, I’m all for it.

I don’t think you can make mechs useful outside of mechazor without making mechazor even stronger. A simple card such as “draw a mech” might be fine because you can control what you draw in a deck that runs only one mech unlike in mechazor decks. That’s the only example of a card that fits your idea I can think of.


#5

Adding cards to draw mechs and adding different effects and other mechs units would be the best solution, it would add strategy and could allow you to create an epic customisable Mechaz0r (Blast, Celerity, or faction effets like zeal, rebirth, deathwatch, …)

The problem is : The more mech units you have, the easier it’ll be to summon Mechaz0r

Maybe adding a limitation to the number of Mech cards in a deck ?
For example adding other mechs units and make Mechaz0r’s abilities based on them but limiting the number of mechs to 15 or 20.


#6

Making such arbitrary rules for the sake of a single deck type instead of balancing properly hurts the game.


#7

Well, it’s not like you’re going to have more than 15 Mech units in a non-Mechaz0r deck. But i see your point.

The other solution coud be to change the way you summon Mechaz0r. But i have no idea how.

Or maybe a kind of Mech general ? Like a “faction” for this type of decks. With unique rules and a special bbs.


#8

Well now at least they have a draw mechazor from you’re deck card and one that gives you another mechazor when you summon him. Atleast there’s a glimmer of hope :stuck_out_tongue:


#9

Necrobump much? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#10

there was a thread on the forum, i forget where, that talks about reworking mechs.

one idea i really liked was to make mechs “stackable”. as in you could play a mech on another mech and it would buff the existing one at the expense of the body you would normally summon and possibly some stats. for example, stacking a sword on top of helm would give the helm, frenzy and +3/3 (or if thats too powerful, frenzy+2/1 or something). that would make building mechazor quite literally building mechazor.


#11

Here’s the post, one of @thorrk’s best imo: Thoughts About Mechazor


#12

Isn’t mechanzor deck too slow for current meta? I used to play old Kara mech but after getting to diamond I lost every game if I didn’t pull big guy by turn 6. It was even worse against vanar they always had chromatic waiting for him. Is there anybody here playing mechanzor in diamond/Srank? What general do you use? I think starhorn could be good…?


#13

I reached S with mech Reva earlier this month. When I don’t get Mechaz0r out early, I try to sabotage my opponents plans with plays like Twin Strike or Sword + Inner Focus. Aggressive decks are still a hard matchup, but if you play defensively and don’t put stuff like Blaze Hound in your deck, you can still get some wins.

Against Vanar/Lyonar, only play your Mechaz0r far away if you get it out really early or if you have a card like Juxaposition or Hearth Sister ready.


#14

Are you using zor in your deck? And all 15 mech cards? I am experimenting with starhorn replace mech deck atm. Its fun just have to play more games to see if it can seriously compete.


#15

In my opinion, there should be many more mech cards. I like the idea of you get whatever keywords you build him with. I think we should have cards like this as well. “MechazorBlastchip” 3 Mana, 1/1, Opening gambit “Gives your mechazor Blast”. Or, a spell, “System Reboot” 6 Mana, “Restores Mechazor’s health and abilities and activates Mechazor”. Another spell, “Patch time” 5 Mana, Destroys any of your mech units (except mechazor) and re summons it with 2 more in each stat. You could use this to build mechazor more quickly. Another idea “Mechanic’s mark” An artifact that reads “Whenever a mech unit dies, draw a card.” Simple things like these would be a nice thing to support mechs.

Alter Rexx needs a rework. Maybe just make him “Overclock Mechazor” Mechazor Overclocked would be a 4/8 Flying, Frenzy, Celerity, Haste, and Spellshield, and make him dissapear at the end of the turn like a wind dervish. That way he isn’t a direct upgrade, It would let you use him as a board clear, and give Alter Rexx more use. I’d also like to see some more mech cards that have nothing to do with mechazor, but would let you build different “Models”. For example, I’d like to see cards like these,
When you play one, you add a different one to your hand. Let’s call them Bro-Bots. They could have the effect, “Add 33% to any modified mechazor model of your choice, and add another Bro-Bot to your hand.” They could all be 1/1, or 2/2, and cost maybe 2 a piece, but it would allow you to quickly build onto the board.

Here are my ideas for the “Modified mechazors” One could be “Stealth bomber”, a 5/1 Flying, rush and celerity minion. “Flamebot” 4/4, blast, airdrop. “Overtaking Wall” 0/6 Provoke, wall, and a unique ability, "At the end of your turn, if this minion is still alive, summon any mech unit (excluding mechazor). These would all also have the effect, clear out any modified mechazor points. So when you got to 99%, It would give you the choice of which one you want, and you would play it down. You could summon multiple of these per game. I think this would allow mechazor decks to still do okay if mechazor can’t do his job, plus it would make the decks have more identity.

Maybe these changes might make Mechazor decks OP. My suggestion is you could nerf mechazor to a 7/6, to make the deck more fair. I hope these changes are taken into consideration.


#16

I’m running 3x z0r and 2x Chassis. As Magmar you’re probably playing on curve more, so in your case it’s better to play 3x Chassis and no Z0r. Don’t forget to include Mandrakes.


#17

Every time Mechaz0r is summoned with 3 Helmets and 2 Wings, I wonder, why don’t devs really implement such a simple rule. Voltron (first mech I saw on TV) required all of the bodyparts to assemble properly. Or it could be two separate arms with a sword (if legs were somehow disabled). No need for all 5 different Mechaz0r parts to be alive at the same time (maybe Mechaz0r from 5 living units could receive some sort of bonus - after modifiying his current keywords set) - but progress should be advanced by different units.


#18

Because such a simple rule would make the deck utterly awful? Also, nice necro.


#19

Does “necro” mean that I’ve posted in an old thread? I’m not experienced with forum slang. If yes - I think it’s better to continue an old thread than to start a new one with the same topic (and even suggestion).

In its current state Mechaz0r awfully defies basic construction logic. And while Duelyst is far from realism-centered games, I can’t stop imagining this poor freakish mech, assembled from three heads and two swords. And nothing has been done at all about these units.


#20

Closing thread for necro.