Kron, what astral crusader should have been


#1

just wanted to ask, does anyone else think that they should have made a kron-like card the legendary in the replace season (can’t remember what month but the one with widows and dreamgazer). it would have been so much better than the garbage-tier astral crusader


#2

But astral crusader is great … 350 spirits right away and one of the coolest attack animations :smiley:


#3

Astral crusader’s core design is flawed, even with the suggestion how the effect should apply to all copies and Kron is just good on it’s own and making a replace deck purely to get value from him isn’t worth it because the card performs better in regular decks. They’re both on the extreme ends of the spectrum. CPG needs to do a lot more about replace mechanic if they want to make it an actual deck archetype.


#4

It’s still super fun at least


#5

If astral crusader healed 2 hp to your general every time it was replaced, I would wager it would make the card somewhat playable since instead of just replacing a dead card for the majority of the game, you would last longer which also indirectly allows there to be more replaces since the game goes longer. Having your late game cards having the utility of healing you from turn 1 flameblood warlocks seems decent enough to try out in a deck in my eyes.

Honestly I think the reason astral crusader was made weak in the first place was that counterplay feared the dreaded 0 mana crusader + old time maelstrom combo… Especially now that time maelstrom and vindicator got nerfed I think even just a slight buff would make the card playable. However I wonder if you manage to reduce the cost to 2 or less, it would be able to be targeted by mirror meld (not that would see any play due to charki avatar being far better at that).


#6

Having an effect that triggers on the card itself being replaced is a lot stronger than anything currently in the game, for sure. You have to be very careful about that kind of effect though. It’s even less interactive than getting blasted in the face by spiral technique because it circumvents the normal card rules and gets value without being played or spending mana. A single card can even trigger it repeatedly.


#7

Both cards suffer from terrible design to be honest.
Astral Crusader is too weak to ever be useful.
Kron meanwhile is one of the most broken cards the game has ever seen, being both absurdly far above the base stat line but also having Provoke and a downright obnoxious random effect that adds nothing to the design except a potential for more irritation. I find it quite baffling that after releasing the original Keeper of the Vale and having it dominate competitive play for a good month before being nerfed, Counterplay actually managed to make the EXACT same error again only a little while later. Worrisome to say the least.

Overall, while the Crusader is a missed opportunity for sure, I am still glad it was released first since that at least spared us from the horror that is the current metagame for a little while longer…


#8

At least they can identify the problem and are willing to solve it (cof cof heartstone cof cof)


#9

Anyone else feel that the replace archetype feels really meh? I mean Kron is kinda interesting (if we ignore the fact that he’s grossly overstatted) in that you have to play him before replacing which can lead to sub-optimal plays, but overall I don’t really believe in trying to build an archtype around replace simply because it’s soo… dull.
I mean, you could introduce a discard mechanic and create cards around that and it would actually lead to some interesting gameplay since players would have to weigh tempo against value. Or agressive decks that used your generals health as a resource, that allowed you to play under-costed cards at the risk of killing yourself.
With the replace cards you might as well change their text to “when this enter play + at the start of every turn do X” change the replace guy to cause them to trigger twice and the overall difference would be really minor.


#10

I think that if they changed Crusader to something like i.e 5 mana 4/5 ,whenever you replace this card give it +1/+1. It would be played.


#11

It wouldn’t. The core flawed design of the card is still there, slightly changing stats doesn’t make the card better. If you need to replace the card multiple times before you can play it, it better has a dope fucking effect where running a replace deck to abuse it is actually worth it. Having extra stats isn’t that.


#12

Worst case cenario you play a 4/5 for 5 mana. Every time you replace it grows stronger and when dispelled still has a decent body. I think that in a replace deck it could see play, otherwise it’s just outshined by better options (regarding both the original variant and the one I suggested).
How about +2/+2 every time u replace it?


#13

Or another suggestion could be to make it even bigger; increasing the cost to 8 mana and the buff it gets when replaced to +2/+2.
This way you replace it anyway since you cannot play it early and when you do play it you get a huge body.


#14

Even with +2/+2 you still need to replace it twice for it to be above average. And even then it’s just extra stats which is extremely easy to deal with. As long as it’s about stats the card will be both boring and bad, unless they really give it a big buff at which point it will just end up being a horribly designed card who’s whole viability is about you getting lucky with replaces and hoping enemy doesn’t have removal.

Only way to make the card both fun and interesting is ditch the stat buffs when replaced. If it was up to me, I wouldn’t even keep the current mechanic it has and would replace it (heh) with something more consistent. Just look at Widow for example, that’s a good example of a well designed card that works with the archetype.


#15

The problem with replace decks is that there IS no “replace deck”

I mean, you don’t get any benefit from running kron AND white widow that you wouldn’t get from running ONLY kron, or ONLY white widow. Aethermaster is the only card that actually gives a purpose to the archetype, and it’s not like your always going to draw it. Replace decks need more ways to actually replace, not more cards that “do X thing when you replace”

I was thinking cards like “opening Gambit: you can replace two additional cards this turn” or maybe even “opening Gambit: draw an astral crusader from your deck”

As of now, replace cards are just normal cards that do their own thing, which happen to get stronger if you’re lucky enough to draw aethermaster, the ONE thing that gives your deck a reason to exist.


#16

I feel like the major issue for replace archetypes is, as somewhat started by previous posts, the lack of replace synergy besides aether master. Mech archetypes at played because they summon a very powerful minion after summoning 5 weaker statted minions. Arcanyst archetypes are played because there is a lot of synergy in that archetype, mainly with Owl beast sage. However, since replace minions don’t have their own subtype, they can’t specifically affect replace minions.

I would suggest the following for replace minions:

Astral Crusader: give it protection from enemy spells. Possible stat and cost retribution.
Kron: cost increase, probably to 7 mana.

Other/new cards:

Replace an additional card this turn.

Give a friendly minion: take no damage this turn.

Restore a friendly damaged minion to full health.

Replace 2 additional cards this turn.


#17

Easy there satan :sweat:


#18

I crafted 3 Crusaders. Maaaan am I disappointed… I want my spirit back!!! :persevere:


#19

i’ve made a replace deck with really good results. it doesn’t run crusader though obviously


#20

I think the problem with Replace decks is a lack of a payoff. There is no endgame or reward for replacing cards beyond White Widow and Inquistor Kron.
I believe Astral Crusader was intended to be a late-game card but suffered from being useless in the late game itself seeing as it actually does not reward the act of replacing like the others.

As to what I think Astral should do? The way I see it, replace decks suffers from being a combo-oriented value deck without a way to get back into a game. I’d replace the text with

Opening Gambit: Restore 1 health to your General for every card you’ve replaced this game. Draw a card.

Reasoning:

  1. Astral Crusader in it’s current state is supposed to be replace fodder but has no value beyond it’s stats in a topdeck situation. It is a win-more card, something which replace decks have a lot of I think. So what the deck needs is something to get back into the game - meaning health or cards.
  2. An effect to draw cards is a little tricky to do in a way that relates to the number of replaces you’ve made so I chose health gain. 1 health per card replaced may seem low but I think that at 2 the effect would have been good enough that the card would see play outside replace themed decks, something I wanted to avoid.
  3. Finally there is the cantrip statement at the end; replacing cards means that you have to have a hand that you can replace. By having the Astral Crusader replace itself the card guarantees that there will be cards to fuel the effects.