"Knights Of The Round Table, Unite!" [Calling All Lyonar Mains]

[bennyboy101k]

1) Preface: Mid-Season Lyonar Recap/Rant

This season has been very sub-par for me as a Lyonar main (so far). I started off the reason rank 21 and blew by the competition with a standard Lyonar Control deck. I won about 80% of my ladder matches until about rank 13. After playing about 50 matches, my win rate decreased to about 45%, with my worst match-ups being Cassyva, Vaath and Kara. It took a strong streak to propel me into Gold. Now I’m currently Rank 9 and am pursing that coveted Diamond/S rank. I have taken breaks from Lyonar here and there, mostly with a gimmicky Faie-Mechazor deck, but that was for fun mostly. But yeah, all of this struggling made me beg the question: “How are other Lyonar players doing?”

2) Lyonar Player Polls

(To make this poll as informative as possible, only answer if you’re at least rank 20 and play a minimum of 3 matches on ladder a day)

• I win between 80% ~ 100% of my ladder matches using Lyonar
• I win between 65% ~ 80% of my ladder matches using Lyonar
• I win between 30% ~ 65% of my ladder matches using Lyonar
• I win less than 30% of my ladder matches using Lyonar

Show results

Because of how dominant Cassyva, Vaath and Kara are proving to be, my hypothesis is that most Lyonar players will check off “30% ~ 65%”, but just to make sure my reasoning is right:

When using Lyonar, your losses in ladder can be attributed mostly to… [poll name=poll2 type=multiple min=1 max=5]

• Argeon (Lyonar General)
• Zir’an (Lyonar Alt. General)
• Kaleos (Songhai General)
• Reva (Songhai Alt. General)
• Zirix (Vetruvian General)
• Sajj (Vetruvian Alt. General)
• Lilithe (Abyssian General)
• Cassyva (Abyssian Alt. General)
• Vaath (Magmar General)
• Starhorn (Magmar Alt. General)
• Faie (Vanar General)
• Kara (Vanar Alt. General)
  [/poll]

3) Lyonar Player Discussion

If it is the case that Lyonar players are struggling against the top tier generals of this season (Cassyva, Vaath and Kara) like I am, then we need to have a discussion on how to improve our decks with the following questions as a general framework:

• Which Lyonar general has a better overall matchup against the top tier generals?
• Which cards are the best anti-meta calls for this season (whether they be Lyonar removal spells or just neutrals)?
• Which Lyonar deck theme can we consider the most optimal against the top tier generals?
• As Lyonar players, how can we counter the top tier generals while also preserving our good matchups?
• Should we stick to standard Lyonar builds with a couple of tech choices or deviate completely from the norm and try creative/odd Lyonar buillds?

4) Summary and Closing

August is being claimed by the wretched Cassyva, Vaath and Kara. As Lyonar players, we must do something about this! Argeon and Zir’an need us in order to protect the Lyonar Kingdoms from being conquered! Seriously though…thanks for reading and make sure to comment your input on the meta even if you aren’t playing Lyonar.

Bennyboy101k, signing off~

[thematsjo]

I’ve been playing Zir’an extensively, and think it’s safe to say that Lyonar’s currently only somewhat competitive using pro-active (usually aggro) Argeon lists beyond Rank 10. Fighting against Vaath, Cassyva and Faye all require early aggression, and Reva requires mobility (Lion, Magnetize, Elyx) or board clears (Tempest, Skorn), which all fit better into typical Argeon decks right now.

The strongest approach still seems to be “play big stuff, hope it survives, then swing with DB” coupled with Tiger + Roar + Immolation for burst.

The only alternative deck I can see having some success is a Wallyonar deck running wild with beefy Provokes to dictate the game. Knight, Shieldmaster, Tombstone, Guardian & Elyx ftw, basically. Perhaps Golden Justicar could earn a spot as well. I feel like I’ve really exhausted all possibilities currently and am waiting on Shim’zar to figure out new approaches. No big successes with Healyonar or ArcaHeal on my end. Is anybody playing a Zeal deck seriously?

Cool post.

[bennyboy101k]

I’m totally with you on the idea that a proactive/agro build of Argeon is the closest thing we have to competing with the top tier generals… so far. I suspect however, that we Lyonar players aren’t exploring the core/neutral set enough. I’m pretty sure there’s a build or a spell/neutral out there that is going to give us an easier time of achieving the most currently viable Lyonar win condition AKA hoping your high health minion sticks a turn to drop a DB for game.

Problem with DB/that deck theme is that it requires a simplified game-state, where there’s little to no enemy minions that can threaten the big minion AND no hard removal in the opposing hand. While it is true that the game-state I described is sometimes reality, I still think it’s asking for too much because Cassyva, Vaath and Kara (Cassyva in particular) all thrive and excel at producing complex gamestates.

Shadow creep, Claws + BBS, and beefy opening gambit minions all have one thing in common: they’re all hard to clear/catch up to in a turn. Thus Lyonar gets blown out by these things because it can’t resimplify the game-state fast enough.

Here are some possible 1 card-solutions to our problem:

Beam Shock - Sounds theoretically sound against Vaath Smash and can also be utilized turn 1 going first to gain orb advantage for a quick big minion.

Sun Bloom/Ephemeral Shroud/Lightbender - Solves Vaath’s/Kara’s BBS buffs and shadow creep when needed.

Tempest/Skorn - Clears the board of any low health/beaten up minions and helps clear any artifacts on the opposing general.

Sunset Paragon - Clears Kara’s beefed up armies

Also, here’s some themes I’d like to test/re-test with all these things in mind:

Agro Lyonar
Heal Lyonar
Golem Lyonar
Anti-Meta Lyonar (Full of dispell and monster removal)
Celerity/Forcefield Lyonar

[Invenuz]

Yeah, I agree with you guys: a more pro-active strategy is what Lyonar needs to handle to survive in this meta. Pro-active doesn’t apply for Lyonar only it applies to the game itself. I am of the belief that re-active decks or strategies are on disadvantage in the game. But, putting that discussion to the side, I’ve had great experiences with Lyonar using Magnetize. It helps me reach some distant minions or playing safe to then attack. I think that Lyonar depends a lot on how to position yourself and your minions. So learning those mechanics is fundamental for playing Lyonar, more than the cards you use. Lyonar itself has strong minions and great spells to give those minions buffs and advantages such as Divine Bond and Magnetize. Another great card that I’ve seen played against my Aggro Vaath that do so well is Arclyte Regalia. Wear 2 or 3 of that artifact and there is not much way your early magmar minions can do against it.