Duelyst Forums

Kara BBS Suggestion

#1

I think it’s no secret that Kara is one of the weaker Generals after her (much-needed) nerf. However, some of the new cards released in RotB do not synergize well with her bloodborn spell. For example:

Myriad - only the wall summoned by the blood surge effect gains the stat bonus. Myriad itself can never benefit from Kara’s BBS without Cryptographer shenanigans. This means that it is a 3/3 for 3 mana, which is a mediocre stat line.
Cryptographer - this card cannot benefit from the bonus stats from the BBS provided from its refresh effect. A useful line of play would be BBS + Crypto + BBS to give +2/+2, but this is a 4-mana play, leaving at most 5 mana to summon other, more useful, minions.

In light of these interactions, I propose a minor change to Kara’s BBS. The proposed BBS would read: Minions summoned at any point during this turn gain +1/+1. In effect the BBS applies retroactively to minions already summoned this turn, as well as those yet to be summoned.

There are a few potential drawbacks to this proposal:

  • This isn’t the change Kara needs - this proposal may not do enough to make Kara viable, and duct-taping a solution is not the right approach.
  • This is confusing - Duelyst does not currently have retroactive effects. Adding one increases the cognitive load of the game.
  • This disincentivizes skillful play - this proposed change is more forgiving toward ordering errors, which lowers the skill ceiling. Highly competitive players may not like this.

I welcome feedback on this proposal. Just be gentle - this is my first post here!

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#2

I think it would be a good change. A slight buff/quality of life tweak to make a weak concept slightly more viable. As you said, it isn’t the change Kara needs and bandaids and whatnot but you see her extremely rarely on ladder now that she isn’t new anymore.

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#3

I honestly think they could revert the nerf and it would be fine in the current meta. When Kara was strong most other decks had suffered several nerfs and/or were missing some cards to complete their strategy. Now however nearly every deck not only has the tools to complete their deck they also have options. I personally wasn’t too impressed with original Kara and just felt it was fun and flavor of the month.

#4

While her original BBS might gut perform fine in the current meta, there are two issues with it. First, metas change, so what’s okay now could become bad again. Second, and more importantly, the old BBS was unhealthy for the game. All-neutral decks that you have to rush down before 7 mana or lose are just not fun. They weren’t fun to lose to, and they weren’t fun to win with. I think Kara just needs the right support to be viable again.

#5

Why not make it +2/+0 it would fit more in theme with Razorback and Boundless Courage. You could counter stuff like Jax with Scorn where you couldn’t with anything that boosts toughness. It would work well with Ash Mephit but I doubt it would be overpowered and it would be a lot better with walls.

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#6

Kara is a cool general and she’s not in a problematic state as to warrant any changes imo.

#7

The lack of synergy with Myriad is really painful, but I think its intent was to give a wall tool to Faie decks so that walls and Kara weren’t always synonymous.

Kara’s big issue is having to stall until she can burst minions out of hand, but that’s solved with mutli-summon cards like Zyx, Prismatic Illusionist, and the Wall spells. I think she’s alright, just needs a little more tweaking.

#8

I thought of this too. But i would just changa the text to “minions you summoned this turn get +1/+1” that way it still synergises with myriad (also prismatic illusionist for example) and is much more straightforward

#9

@dpcyric +2/+0 would be OP. Consider Argeon’s BBS, which is already one of the better BBSes, and is limited to a single minion next to the general. Giving 2 attack to 2-3 minions would be too good. I’ve toyed with +1/+2 being more reasonable, but even that might be too much.

@Aeruniel I’m curious why you think Kara doesn’t need any changes. She currently doesn’t see competitive play, hight-rank play, and has one of the lowest win rates of all the generals. I think this is indicative of some sort of problem with her. Perhaps changing her BBS isn’t the answer, but it would be nice to see all generals have a shot at high-level play.

@leadfootslim Kara is sort of in the same place that Zir’An is wrt Argeon, in that “anything you can do I can do better”. Giving stall tools to Kara is fine, but Faie can just make better use of them.

Maybe the fix here is to make token-spawn minions better. Currently Frostiva and Voice of the Wind are considered lackluster, and Ancient Grove is too slow for this meta.

#10

It is a normal reaction of people to not play a card after a nerf, because of the emotional connection to the card from before the nerf, just like the memories ‘are in the way’ and the fact that it requires new thinking.

In general, people are not excellent at adapting to things like that.

When I just came here some cards were just nerfed, but I had no idea, so I played with them just fine and they were actually just fine.

I think something similar is happening here. I have played with Kara a lot after the change and I do not see her as weak AT ALL. I may be wrong, but from my point of view I have not yet seen good evidence that compels me to conclude that Kara is indeed weak in such a manner as to require a buff.

Starhorn before RotB was also weak, but also didn’t deserve a buff according to devs, and I actually agree.
One general will ALWAYS be the weakest, or perceived as the weakest, and be played the least. That’s simply a result from making a list: there is something at the bottom. Doesn’t mean there’s an issue.

Also, you’re asking me to tell you why I think something should not happen, which is rather difficult in general apart from saying: look at everything there is now, and see that it is fine.
If you on the other hand have arguments I can maybe posit a counter to, then that would probably be the way to go if you really want to get to the bottom of this.

I posted a few threads on her btw:


Maybe that can also help give you answers.

#11

Gold…

I main kara and i’ll be the first to admit she’s underpowered.

She’s the worst out of all the generals. Her BBS only has good synergy with certain cards which pinholes her playstyle way too hard and you pretty much missed all toaster’s points.

#12

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