Incredibly nice read!
It's time for *drums* nerfing vanar more!
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Thanks dude, glad you appreciated my not-so-short reply 
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Its funny to see this now because I was there with the guy you played against, Ssquiter, we’re irl friends, I was at his house, and we had tons of fun with Burn Faie, you wouldnt even believe it
Its interesting to be on the other side of the nerf thread for once. I have a couple of inaccuracies to fix, being the other side of the story and all. First, and most debatable, is that its probably not true that we dont know how to play the game! And after that, its absolutely not true that it was over since the begining. Hell, you had us not be the beatdown most of the late mid and endgame. We had to use Fissure defensively- that is, on minions! This was one of our slowest matches, and overall it was actually a VERY close one.
The biggest mistake of this rant is that you speak as if our intention was to have a board and use it, but thats not the case, we never had the intention of keeping our creatures, minions are played EXCLUSIVELY for their immediate impact. Honestly, if there was one misplay on your part, is that you took your bloody time (metaphorically speaking) to kill that Wisp. You had 4 open mana and Iceshatter equipped, and you decided to cast Deathgrip + Crystallize, which is three mana- you could’ve just used Crystallize and cast some other 3 mana card to try and overwhelm us with your board even more.
But wait. I know what you’re thinking now. Youre thinking it wouldnt have mattered. Because of a certain magical card.
You know the one, its Concealing Shroud. Lets not stop ourselves from crying for nerfs on stupid cards, and recognizing, yeah, maybe Shroud is a stupid ass card. I think “spree” is a very strong word, I’ll just say straight up that we cast it twice- yet it was enough. You were one of our better opponents, did everything right- Didnt walk into the middle column to be Fissured nor stayed there to be Fissured twofold like many others we came across today, didnt let our BBS enablers stick, didnt trade face, locked us in the midle of Lady Locke and two 4/4 provoke Blazing Spines which would’ve killed anyone other than someone with Concealing Shroud, then once again almost completely surrounded us with more Locke-Provoke shenanigans- That still ended up being insufficient to stop us from getting lethal. I want to emphasize this, had we not drawn two Shrouds, we would have lost. Didnt even use Alcuin to get another one of that, the only one we cast was played for the body.
To me, this is clear- This shouldnt be an “aggro sucks” thread. Aggro is hella fun. Burn is hella fun. This should be a “Nerf this god damned retarded cloak already” thread. Because its so stupid and tilting to play against it. And sometimes makes for “unjust” wins.
On arguments against nerfing it, if you had even one dispell in your deck, you would also have won. But I dunno how much that tips the scales.
The funniest thing is, Wisp and Concealing are my least favorite cards in the deck. I’d much rather have more burn than play Malicious and do nothing for that turn- worse still is when you cast it late game for no impact, and Shroud is almost too situational- a situational you only want in the end game which is extra bad because since we dont have that much draw its literally a card to give you one chance to draw or replace into a miracle.
The problem is that sometimes it works.
Here, puzzle of the day for y’all.
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atk bottom left well
place wisp there
heartsister bottom left from wisp,swap with active sister
go face
bbs
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You know what stops shroud?
shroud
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I agree with @atheistmantis on this imo rather obvious point. Winning is important. I loved my Variax Gate Lilithe deck, but I stopped playing it when I found out I mostly lose with it now, even though most games were fun.
As for aggro, I don’t like playing as or against aggro. The reason is most the decks I find fun are combo decks, and they should have time to find their combo. If I just don’t have enough time, it’s not fun.
Speaking of burn - they are both the harder and the easier decks to play. Yeah, they are harder to play properly than, say, Midrange Vaath. But also, they are easier to play if you had experience with other CCG/TCG before Dooli, since they don’t use the board as much (although they still use it to a measure). That may explain newer players trying to play burn.
And positional Vanar is very hard, and not so effective, thus is unappealing to newer players.
Btw, no burn archetype except Horn (or Artihai, but it’s arguable whether it is burn, and is considered to be one of the hardest archetypes to play) is viable now. Even my beloved burn Reva is not so good, same goes for burn Faie. Deathsadvocate is probably happier than ever 
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@ryousen heyo! it’s nice to know that you are behind ss, however as it seems i had a burn aggro faie day, you were the settle one… besides i don’t complain about the game against you, which was actually nice yet couldn’t draw my cc again.
(look at that screenshot - priceless).
it seems like games against aggro usually ends up like this, the enemy get surrounded by lethal.
but just to emphasize - you were not the one i was talking about more to it - i was talking about the concept of people in this meta ditch every nice archtype for the sake of winning.
another point - there was no cry nerfs, just a suggestion for newer players to start playing decks that involving different aspects then dmg output.
vanar needs no more nerfs it does need some buffs to key cards, frostiva and sister comes to mind.
thank you all for your takes and views on the game:)
i enjoyed reading your oppinions.
@ryousen even yours you crazy nutjob XD
my point was and still is - i miss the days when vanar had their setbacks but play positional, where bbs wasn’t enough to win.
i can take aggro from other faction, but seen “my” faction playing dirty feels a little off.
that’s it.
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You think that’s a problem?
the control almost always win.
@Whyb0t: Not long ago I talked in a PS! chatroom and I said that HO is the hardest playstyle and that stall is the easiest. This turned into a flamewar, people think that aggressive styles are all about going face but they aren’t that, in this case HO requires more prediction than any other team, it also requires you to remember hundreds of damaging calculation and have an expensavie knowledge on how tempo works in this game. Stall requires none of that, it just requires you to play safe, to know what walls beat what and to how to not lose to certain offensive cores, overall stall is a lot less skill intensive, just more patience testing.
While this is hard to translate to card games at its base it’s easy, Aggro requires you to pay lots of attention to your mana, have tons of match-up knowledge (if you want to take it to high levels) and be very good at ordering. While control requires you to know how to slow the game down till the point where your engine starts picking up steam.
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I think there are a few kinds of control you speqk about one of them, the stall game - heavy control, lots of removal, big tempo minions, we’ll call it slow control - like magmar’s vaath or classic ziran.
The other types are - quick control, which include ramp - ramp doesn’t care about your board, it does however gets to the finishing line before your heavy removal kicks in threats included, usually removal will be pact for certain matchups where you don’t draw enough ramp options, you ramp too fast or your enemy survived your wincon/ dispelled it.
and the last type - which is my favorite and most complex, we’ll call it board manipulation control. the condition is - have a board, utilize it (reflection, vespyr, and sotw) ramp doesn’t help as well as stalling because your productivity indicates pace.
stall will be included for i reason - keep your enemy at the same condition which allows your wincon to take place, for ex. - stow is not relevant if your opponent ruched to your side of the board, so packing avalanche will get him back, heartsister + wailing overdrive is an option too but these options cost deck space.
good aggro decks skip over it, most of them are cheap and are enough to burn you down if requirements didn’t met (especially if you play vanar and has no build in healing to answer it), plus deck space is used as narrow as dmg enabler, dmg reduction, and mobility from time to time, this is enough deck space to cover most of the ground needed.
control will take tempo decks everyday (the reason wanderer basically lose to a control matchup very often), but if the deck does not rely on stalling or any other condition, burn has a really good chance of winning - the match goes into "see if you can otk or wincon before the timer’s up.
usually i don’t have a problem with it, control decks have certain flexibility and can be piloted to run as semi aggro decks thus finishing the game at 7 mana (see screenshot).
i can agree that calc. of dmg output and match ups is maybe difficult at times but piloting a deck that rely on position to pull out max dmg, need to cover a lot of ground with a fixed deck is harder - this is basically the reason control vanar is SO hard to pilot while aggro is easier and more appealing to newer players.
i do however feel and felt when i started that the board gives a whole lot of depth to the game, which aggro usually blur if not forced to it by certain decks (like ziran or vaath that slow everything down)
That’s not control my friend that’s midrange or tempo. Control decks always play counters and always prefer a longer match. Not so with some of the decks you’re describing. Not every deck is either aggro or control…
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I just can’t fit tempo and midrange into these types mainly becuase they don’t rely on minions or tempo.
If your “control” decks havd an earlygame, it’s not control.
As a long time hard Vanar Ramp player, that deck is bassically a weird ass tempo deck, your early game is shit but because you have ramp you kinda just skip to the late game where you pile on pressure.
At it’s base all control decks are the same, no matter the variant they have the same basic gameplan: Survive till the lategame and start applying pressure. Decks go about it differently but they all have the same basic gameplan.
Wait what!? Midrange and Tempo are all about minions and Tempo.
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I meant that i can’t fit qhat i describe into tempo and midrange.
Becuase they don’t rely directly in minions or tempo.
People need to seriously stop throwing the word tempo around because I’m pretty sure at this point almost no one here has any idea what the word means.
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that is just actively untrue, most control decks run 2 drops (either healing or removal based ones), those that skip their t1 run a good number of t2 plays as skipping 2 turns in a row is a loss.
By have I’m a bitof embelshment but it’s bassically that control decks tend to have a below par early game.
Every deck ‘has’ an early game. @epicflygon means if it focuses on early game more than late game, it isn’t control.
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Duelyst doesn,t have true control…for that it is simply too fast
Duelyst has true contril, control has a very basic gameplan and that is easy to replicate.