Duelyst Forums

It's time for *drums* nerfing vanar more!

Well i don’t think vanar should see any nerf really, i love the faction (and run it in the tourney despite the hardship of running it).
I came across this dude today who run a faie aggro with all the shitty and toxic cards in it including unfinished concealing shroud spree with alcuin and bloodbound mentor.
Most of the time (and i mean most of it) he had no board, my tier 6 deck made his board vanish, and surround him with all the goodies.

But i couldn’t fish for my cc, so the game was over since the begining.

Basically if you have no idea how to play the game and you running enough shroud and bbs enabler tou win as long as your opponent (given he’s a vanar player) does not got cc in hand.
This is pissing me off, i enjoy my time running a nice and fun decks (real fun, memes as it gets) taking it easy and the dude come with this.
I had my share with every vanar archtype ever (including hybrids that never work) and aggro is not fun! So why run it?
This is a genuine question, Why not play vanar’s positional archtypes and really study the game? more so if you are new and make some series positioning mistakes.
Is laddering that importent? I really think the easy way of aggro your opoonent to death is crunching away your potential and knowledge.

I’ve been here enough time to pass this to new players - if you read this please listen to me enjoy your staying and learn to play the game the way it’s been intend to be played, at least at the begining (the board is there for a reason).

That’s it, no nerf cries, we had enough of it already, just a suggestion.

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I do think Malicious Wisp in Vanar needs nerf though. Right now its okay because Vanar is shitty, but because it is such a huge crutch, adding anything else to the faction that could be kind of good will make Vanar too good. So in effect, you’re left with Wisp being the only good card and no new cards to speak of.

Also wanted to mention, if I sound intimidating, I’m not being mean. So if you disagree, tell me why, I’m open to changing my mind BUT I will also say that I generally don’t make any solid statements unless I think it’s true.

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Mali isn’t even too powerful imo, it’s just tilting.

I actually find Aggro Faie really fun to play but that’s my opinion.

I must agree regarding wisp, however wisp has a big bad side which is it needs to be played in the back and usually needs to pair with another card to maintain the ramp - but yes, if played well this is a game ender.

I think next expansion needs to focus on the more positional side of vanar - vespyr, infiltrate, stun.
And make them vaible enough for people to prefer them.
Vanar has a bueatiful and complex side, it is ashame people don’t see it.

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I find aggro Reva increasingly fun to play as I make myself more familiar with its positionings but also really easy to ladder with.

Do most people find it an easy deck to pilot? Is it brain dead like Vaath?

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The deck requires a fair amount of skill in my experience but it’s really match-up based. Some match-ups you just win some you just lose and there is little ways around that.

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I think this is why I hate playing burn sometimes. If they have even an inkling of healing, you will most likely lose unless you ramped out geomancer and have god draws throughout the game.

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Idk man, i don’t mind aggro in songhai, this is the faction for it.
But aggro in vanar (or vet) which are more towards positional control or midrange playstyle factions seems a bit off.
It usually just exploit dmg prevention and dmg exceleration to the max, it feels like the whole point is missing.

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You are right in the case of a deck not build around shroud and bbs proc (not against vanar anyway)

Burn Faie doesn’t struggle with healing, it struggles with lots of bursts.

Like I can beat a Vaath player that plays an Earth Sphere cause I can just grind but I can’t beat an Aggro Reva player that KE’s their minions.

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I think that is one of the things I like about it.

The positional based strategies have rarely been meta and Aggro and Midrange where always the best strategies, only recently control became a viable option.

(By recently I mean RotB)

Positional based strategies in Vanar where only good recently as we needed strong cards like Fissure which even then is just used as a punish and conditioning tool. Even then positional based strategies are just an alright rogue option.

That’s why i hope for more support for the positional archtypes, make them more appealing to people who are new.

Midrange vanar is always fun:)
Also control eventhough it is really hard to master.

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I have a feeling that Midrange is better than every other deck right now. More testing is needed however.

Test and report back.

I need well known Fault and Mid Rag players.

aggro reva is easy to pilot, one of the harder deck in the game to pilot well

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Im a pretty good fault player, but I can only play tommorrow. (Think 8 hours into the past as you know)

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Fun to play, not fun to play against…

I don’t care. I actually enjoy my oppenent’s being frustrated, they play worse if they are.

@atheistmantis, I want an essay, at least 3 a4 pages long. >.>

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I’m not actually a Vanar player, though really like the faction, but I figured out recently that I’m a mostly aggro/burn player, I like that play-style especially in Vetruvian and recently in Lyonar.
I find this conversation interesting because you brought up an archetype, aggro-Faie, which I used to find very controversial and OP, at least back when Frigid Corona would target generals, so I’d like to share some thoughts:

If this would be a question to yourself you’d have answered to it already and it’s only a partial truth, especially because starts out on an assumption on which you and a portion, not all, of players agrees on: aggro is not fun.
As much as I hate(d) when people played Conceiling/Alcuin, Frigid"ing" the general, because it’s frustrating to deal with them and leaded to a loss with high probability, I must admit that I understand the pleasure in firing at your opponents, damaging them little by little, alternating healing/provokes/stuns, the “bite and run” style that circumvents big threats. Simplifying, the feeling of “yeah sure, play all your thikk boyz, I will just double Warlock+hit face for the win” is really rewarding, and that’s why aggro is a thing in Duelyst and other CCG.

I wouldn’t dare to speak as a faction expert, but I believe a (new) player can study the game even just by the type of game they want to play. You probably want to play a more mindful, strategical, position based game, but I’m afraid you cannot expect the same attitude from the other players. Yours may be just a suggestion, an attempt to stimulate new players to explore possibilities, scenarios, combos, but I’m afraid you must surrender to the fact that there’s a play-style that just wants to hit face regardless that has nothing to do with positioning, though there’s a board, but this game (and another faction with East Asia-washed feature, and a thing for red, pandas and tigers) has ways and gives tools to ignore the board. Also, in a fast tempo game like this, is inevitable to see aggro decks thriving, especially in a time when they are one of the few good answers to the meta, which leads to the other question…

A game of competition especially without an unranked mode any more, even without necessarily prioritizing it, incorporates the idea of “winning against the others”, and this is materialized in the ladder. Playing such games, most of the time players want to have matches to win them and accomplish their goal of feeling/being stronger than their opponents.
Especially new players can easily be more attracted to that at some point, so if your point should be discussed on an ethical level I’d say: let them do, they’ll reach the point where learning the other archetypes, strategies,and even memeing will be more interesting and important for them.

I think aggro and strategy can go hand in hand, it’s not merely ignorantly shoot and empty your hand then lucky-god draw 'till victory. You can lurk/force the opponent into the centre column and play a Fissure, place stuff so that the opponent will leave a spot for Holy Immo, play Star’s Fury in a time when people think Vetruvian has better 5 mana drops, play post-nerf Saberspine, and so on, just a bunch of quick examples… I mean there are strategical ways to play aggro, surprise the opponent, trigger answers so it back fires or goes to trash: it’s just a different way of intending strategy, and still belongs to the sphere of knowledge of the game.

Though I actually tried to give an answer to your questions, I ideologically agree with you that the game should be explored and all its potential should be discovered and experimented, but I also believe that is part of the learning process, and part of how this game should be played, to play aggro decks, and aggro Faie, and all the aggros, because the game allows it with its cards and the thrill of the win, especially when quick, is exciting and rewarding for everybody.

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