Is it just me, or is flamewreath really stupid?


I guess that’s really it. I feel like this minion needs change. I don’t think it’s OP- but it is the least fun card in the game IMO when playing against it. To get such massive value for simply moving a minion seems…well, stupid.

Is this just me hating Songhai (I do hate Songhai) or is it ( I think yes) just really poor card design?


I think it’s a well made card. Exactly what Kaleos needed to have at least 1 edge over Reva. Also, considering the amount of mana and cards needed to really utilize Flamewreath, it doesn’t even feel that strong most of the time.


I like the card actually, because it needs good setup and build around for its value to be above the curve. Its mostly backstab decks run by Kaleos who use it.
An example of a similar card that instead doesnt need as much of a setup is Holy Immolation, which, Im sure, marks its presense, frustration and continued use much more consistenly.

Im actually happy to see Flamewrath, its one of those cards that I think would feel really good to make work, you know? Unlike other simple and powerful staples (which is not a critic to card designers, but a comment on the possible inherent pleasure of using cards that are mostly suboptimal).


holy immolation is also dumb yes, but I don’t see your point about needing good set-up for flamewreath…the set up is= play flamewreath> use MDS or Kaleos BBS or Inner Focus= kill/damage enemies around it with 0 previous planning or set up at all.


In fact, its a really well planned card that finaly makes kaleos bbs worth existing.



Maybe you should get over your songhai hate and try to play with this card. Depending on the board situation the correct positioning and usage of the movement spells can become really tricky if you want the get the max value out of it.

It definitely requires a lot more thought to be used compared Holy immo. Not to mention that he is only good for Kaleos with a Deck built around him. Imo Flamewreath is what Immo and Makantor should have been, potentially devastating, but only really good in a specific deck. Instead of just plain bonkers no matter where, how and when you play it.


Yes it’s just you :slight_smile:


I think the card is fine. You need to use a lot of position-altering spells to make it shine, and Songhai doesn’t like to be without options in hand. And honestly, Songhai doesn’t want to spend a whole card to deal only 2 damage, so your opponent has to play into this minion quite heavily to make it worth your while.

And if you’re using MDS or Juxtaposition to get a proc for this card, you don’t have it later for a Backstab, which could’ve been greater value.

It’s easy to talk about cards when they truly shine, but I think for people who have played this card, you’ll find that there are far more instances in which it just sits in your hand, and never feels good to play. It’s the moments when it’s insane that we talk about the most. It’s the moments when it’s terrible that go under the radar.


Songhai’s version of Immolation/Makantor.

Juxtaposition does allow you to reach far more places and mess with opponent’s position to get better value out of it. But it requires more cards/BBS to get the best out of it.


well, I guess it’s me then. thanks for all the replies


I agree. Not everytime Flamewreath can deal alot of damage. If it does, it need alot of juxta, MDS, BBS, inner focus, other movement to work well.
And think about it, Fw is 4 mana so it need at least 5 mana to work with other spell (except juxta).

My opinion about other card like immolation i think it should heal a damaged minion so the effect could be activated, instead of just drop on fully healthy minion and deal 4 damage around it.
What i dont like the most is Magmar ability to summon minion at low cost, i’m fine with Makantor being 6 mana and Lava at 5 mana. But summoning them at 4 or even 3 mana with only one flash reincarnation, hell no.


I can completely understand your dislike of the card from an opponent’s viewpoint. I like that people compare it to Holy Immolation and Makantor. There are differences, but the core is the same - unavoidable AoE that hits both minions and generals.

I’d be curious @gooop, how you’d rate these 3 in order of strength for their cost? What’s your opinion about this type of 3x3 grid AoE mechanic? (and other players’ if they want to comment)


Fun fact:

Everyone deserves to have nice things in their deck. Even Kaleos (still, why haven’t they changed Mogwai to work for Kaleos?)


I would say it goes Holy Immo #1 for sure then Makantor then Flamewreath.
Reasoning- Holy Immo- It’s tied for highest damage and lowest cost among the three and though you don’t get a body it heals so it can also trigger all the Lyonar healing stuff- the card is insane and def makes me more sad than Flamewreath.

I’m sure a lot of people will say this is bull shit- but I’m not sure that Makantor is ALWAYS better than Flamewreath. Flamewreath is 2 mana cheaper raw and costs *up to 6 mana to get value on turn played. While 4 damage on a frenzy rush minion is hilarious- once you have attacked with Makantor it is just a 4/2 (I don’t have data to support that but I’ve played a shit load of Mag) most of the time where with Flamewreath if you moved it turn played you got the AoE and it has 4 health still. I think also that often 2 damage AoE is *nearly as effective as 4 at the time when you would want to play Flamewreath- to smoke a bunch of poop dervishes or walls or whatever 2 is plenty.

All in all I think the general Idea of 3x3 AoE is fine though, in fact I think it would be weird if the mechanic didn’t exist in a grid based strat game.

I hope this becomes a good discussion.


its even infected the forum its so powerful


I used to hate songhai back it was actually broken a year+ or so ago. You know not the wrath of comboHai. Now you whippersnappers are crying over an awkward and unwieldy warbeast for a general that’s been so long outclassed?

meh, it’s not that bad.


I do know. I’ve been playing since just after 2 card draw was taken out.


Obviously, it’s on a very high power level, but I like it simply because it opens up new deck archetypes for songhai that have always been shaky at best pre-prophecy. And while strong, it does force the user to conserve resources in order to make the flamewreath turn worth it, otherwise it would just be a lackluster, weaker immolation.

I get where you’re coming from, but I’m in the camp that every class should have at least moderate board clear potential such that midrange can exist in all factions.


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