Is Holy Immolation balanced?


#1

Hey fellow duelyst ¿what do you think about holy immolation? It can do up to 32 damage point out of 4 mana and its low cost can chain it to many minions for a very powerful out of nowhere board swapping effect.

it’s not like you can play around that…
i guess it would be fair if it was necessary that the target is damaged at least that way you could be careful with damaged minions against Lyonar.


#2

yes its balanced as long as there is lantern fox n warbeast there should be holy immolation. end of discussion lol


#3

This game is balanced by having broken cards for every faction. Makantor warbeast exists because lantern fox and holy immolation does and so on.


#4

Well yes, you in fact can play around Holy Immolation ;).

The big thing you should be doing against Lyonar is not huddling your minions and General around a single tile. Instead make diagonal daisy chains and try to avoid letting them hit more than 1 or 2 things with an Immolation

The consensus among Lyonar players is that Holy Immolation is in the top 2 best cards the faction has, so if you learn to handle it you’ll be a long way to manage fighting Lyonar as well.


#5

Yes. Infidels must be burned by the holy light of god as punishment for their ignorance to the one true lyonar!


#6

LOL.

i think it is pretty balanced, since you can play around it.


#7

misdirectiond1h
This game is balanced by having broken cards for every faction. Makantor warbeast exists because lantern fox and holy immolation does and so on.

If a game is balanced around OP cards it depends on RNG. The first to get their OP cards wins.

Anything mandatory when you are building a deck is candidate for OP card. Makantor, Lantern Fox or Holy Inmolation are clear examples. So they need to be tuned down. Nerfed.


#8

I admit that like most of us I have been in situations where Holy immolation (or Makantor) have been devastating and made me wonder wether they are too powerful. However I do think that playing around Holy immolation is fairly straightforward when you know that it might be coming.

I think Holy immolation might be slightly undercosted and would propably be powerful enough if it just damaged minions. All in all that I think it’s completely fine for a cardgame to have cards which feel innately powerful and set up for board swings.

I do agree on that it might be a good decision to only be able to use immolation on a damaged minion.

Finally I have much more trouble with Makantor than immolation since that monster can reach so insanely far due to rush.


#9

If you play around Holy Immo too much you lose tempo by positioning your minions suboptimally, thus slowing down your game. And if you don’t play around it, it takes only one good usage of it to just lose you the game on the spot.

Now with Slo in the game, it’s even easier to lose all your early board advantage to a single Holy Immo. What are you going to do, not contest mana tiles in case the enemy has those 2 specific cards? Of course not, you do your thing and hope you don’t get fucked.

Iunno, I hate the card so I’m probably biased. But the thing is, with Makantor I can at least predict on what turn it’s going to be played due to it’s relatively high mana cost. And if it does come at 4 mana it will probably die in the process because it’s flashed and I’ll still have some kind of advantage there as I get to play my threats first, unlike Holy Immo which always leaves a body behind.

I agree with the suggestion of it needing to actually heal in order for it’s effect to work. Regardless of the state of Lyonar in the current meta, the card is just BS. Something else should probably be done to compensate for it though as it’s a powerhouse and just changing that one card would mean to shit on the faction.


#10

This is a very controversial question. The only issue I have with the card is that it heals+ hits face. That part is tolerable if you manage to play around it by positioning. But the problem now is slo+ holy immo. It’s hard enough fighting for board early vs a lyonar, literally the faction with the best early drops. He can now airdrop for 0 and holy immo, just for 4. Exactly the same problem with makantor. Has reached, instant impact and an aoe. While leaving a body behind (for makantor it’s most of the time cause they’ll aim for your general).

I prefer aoes to lack reach and punish improper positioning. Hence, it will actually matter how you place your stuff; than just pray the opponent magmar doesn’t have a makantor cause 9/10 times if you don’t have a provoke (which are usually threats that get neutralized immediately), makantor will still reach you with their general+ rush on the thing itself + freaking frenzy.


#11

The game is balanced around factions, not single cards. As long as every faction has access to equally powerful cards, it’s balanced. Are some cards stronger than others? Of course. That’s what makes gameplay interesting. If every card were of equal strength, then you’d have no strategical depth and with that no game.


#12

I think is not balanced, makantor leaves a body of 2 hp or 1 hp most of the time. If flashed is killed mos of the time as well. You can amplificate it or fortitude it but that would require 7 mana or 5 mana with flash, so there is strategy and luck involved, managing your hand.

Holy Immolation just needs any minion already on board or a low drop (0 mana battle pet?) and leave any Immolation on hand. So mostly you’ll use 4 mana to deal aoe damage (4 damage, just like makantor) and you leave a body fully recovered.

So to compare
Makantor = 6 mana, leaves a weak body, need of 7 mana and two cards to make it strong, it is very predictable since the mana cost.

Holy Immolation = 4 mana, leaves a full body (weak or not is a full body), is not predictable since it can be used so early in game.

I know we should consider these cards with all the cards from the factions.


#13

Uhm… in your comparison you just take the minion that is already there (or played from hand) as free? How is that a fair comparison? Holy Immolation REQUIRES you to have a minion on the board and in the right position.

You could just as much say that Holy Immolation deals 4 AoE damage at the cost of 2 cards, whereas Makantor deals the same amount of damage at the cost of only a single card.


#14

I see people are saying you can play around it but doesn’t lyonar also have a spell that kills all minions not near your general? That is what I find unfair they damn near have an instant kill for multiple minions whether I play them close or space them out


#15

It kills all minions not near ANY general, so you can safely hug the Lyonar general if it is what you wish.


#16

What, you’re saying having cards that are strictly more powerful INCREASES strategy?
That makes zero sense, it’s not strategy to get good value out of a card simply because it’s OP. It would add more strategy if everything was balanced, and you had to use your cards right to get value.


#17

Imagine chess with nothing but pawns and now imagine chess with its actual pieces. What offers more strategical depth?


#18

“You could just as much say that Holy Immolation deals 4 AoE damage at the cost of 2 cards, whereas Makantor deals the same amount of damage at the cost of only a single card.”

That is very right, but we need to consider the mana cost as well 4 and 6.

Ok HI, needs a body, and Lyonar have those tools, low mana provoke minion to position yourself and you are left with a good body, all of these if you have to drop a minion. But if you manage your board you have already a body in there, so it becomes very versátil.

Makantor is very versatil because of rush, but You are left with a weak health body.


#19

What a ridiculous comparison.

First of all, in chess, each person has the exact same pieces in the same places at the start of the game, I don’t just randomly draw a makantor and then poof, there goes your queen. A highly skilled chess player can beat a beginner even if he threw out his queen at the start of the match.

Secondly, you’re only proving my point further, in chess every piece has equal power, my queen is just as valuable as your queen, my rook is just as valuable as your rook, there are no strictly overpowered pieces. I’m not saying that every card should have the same value, I’m saying that every card of equal cost should have the same value, and the player who comes out on top is the one who uses his equally balanced cards better. No shit a rook is stronger than a pawn, if I sacrifice a rook to take your rook than we each lost the same value, but if I positioned better than you did, I got more out of it. Apply that to duelyst, if I used any other 4 mana card, I should get the same value you got out of holy immolation, but if I planned it out my 4 mana card better than you planned your holy immolation, then I should win.

Thirdly, the idea that op cards are balanced because everyone has them is a terrible argument. If we have a match and you draw 3 holy immolations, but I don’t any any makantors, lantern foxes, or whatever my factions op card is, then I just flat out lose, you got to use your unbalanced cards and I didn’t.


#20

I think the card is imbalance but if you nerf it Lyonar is dead so…

In the list of op cards that would need a nerf quite a few cards will need to be dealt with before holy immo.