In many cases, I think frostiva is a better pick then kron


#1

As many of you would know, in a tempo deck kron gives you such a boon.

Free bodies, regardless of circumstance. It just makes overwhelming them and board pressure so much more easy.

However in a deck I built that swarms midrange powerhouses (tempo based) I found that kron just did not kick hard enough, the problem being was it died so often it was better at pulling answers and slowing your opponent down by a turn then actually pressuring some kind of threat.

For example, makantor + general = oh shit

Another aspect is the rng, yes frostiva has it’s own rng but at least you dont have to cross your fingers that you dont get another 2/2 frenzy in range of their iron dervish. I am not underplaying the power of kron, it demands an answer and throws 14 raw stats on the board the turn you play it. But it normally is a distraction.

In vanar, you are playing a card to tax their resources. This equates to winning the game via grinding them down rather then bursting them down from a superior position. This avenue of play lines in more with control rather then tempo (think silithar elder). I would not recomend this in a tempo deck that needs things to stay put.

Frostiva is a breath of fresh air, the stats it outputs are split rather evenly yet not to the point that the original body is useless, so when you want a target for wailing overdrive or razorback or aspect of the mountain ect you are more likely to find a 3/3 sticking then a 2/2. Yes it could be answered before you get anything at all from it and that is a risk you take, however in tempo you should have been at such a stage they would have answered your 4 drops and been suppressed by your removal… it enables tempo to a wincondition and the forcefield trait is essential as it allows you to plow through units until they can kill it in a two step process, this means you are gaining value consistently.

I believe the biggest boon is it is immune to damage based removal, it is very hard to pop and forget. The most readily available answers to it are range restricted and to kill it with their board is to multiply your board with stats, say 3 units trade into it you now have 3 3/3’s (vespyrs too if you run that kind of deck). Imagine it as the sojourner of tempo.

Kron is hands down the better card, when looking at it on a sheet of paper. But frostiva is in many ways the better pick for vanar (unless you want to play a kara grind deck that wins with tiger, but then again you could run anything in that).

It is in the end up to your judgement, but frostiva does not distract it destroys

Edit: it seems people didn’t see the parts when I assessed kron as the overall better card, if you skipped most of the post and are going off the title. I understand kron has provoke and gives immediate value, this post more covers the way frostiva handles it and how that works better for vanar in many cases


#2

Well yeah, just by looking at the cards you can tell how Frostiva is better if you’re in the lead and it remains unanswered. Thing, how often does that situation happen? And even if it does, do you really want to be winning more or is it better to just run Kron which is in general more useful. Thankfully when it comes to midrange/tempo vanar decks, they usually have enough slots to fit in both so whatevs.


#3

Well, now imagine you’re losing board and you play a 3/3 forcefield at 5 mana.

Compare that to playing a 4/6 provoke and a 2/2 at 5 mana.

The reason Kron is “The OP” is because you can run him in pretty much every deck bar aggro, and drop him down every turn you can and he’ll pull value immediately. Not because he’s batshit broken, but because he’s the “reliable ol’ kron”.


#4

Disagree with this post for obvious reasons.

You are overthinking small downsides of kron vs forstiva while completely ignoring the elephant in the room
-Kron is immediate value, not frostiva.
-Kron protects you when you are behind and keep you alive, not frostiva.
-Kron is still a 4/6 that brought you a 2/2 if dispelled while frostiva is just a 3/3.

Not matter what deck you play Kron is a superior card in every possible way. The only thing frostiva does better is snowballing , it is a win more card at best.


#5

I do think I addressed all those points you listed, I could quote myself if you wished. (even said it was the better card hands down)

However I think I will reframe it so you understand where I am coming from.

  1. Kron gets immediate value, yes I agree the raw stats you throw down is quite daunting however there is no position in which you can overwhelm them and does not do as well on an empty board (quite common for tempo).

  2. Krons saves your ass, Yeah I agree that kron just eats any would be face killers like a noble provoke minion and frostiva cannot do something similar however you can easily build around this. For example I use both primus shieldmaster and gravity well (both on curve powerhouses)

  3. Kron gives immediate value, well just expanding on your first point here yes there are risks and especially with dispell but it protects itself well against damage based removal which kron cant. kron good for dispell (yes), frostiva good for damage removal (yes)

Each to their own strengths

To your point of a win more, yes it is just like that but with tempo vanar you need a card that pushes and advantage so you can actually close out a game. Less time for your opponent to come back


#6

I am pretty sure due to the difference in functionality you wont want to chuck sub par stats in a losing scenario (i’d try a comeback mechanic like paragon and in some cases frostburn)


#7

Quite the opposite in fact, by playing frostiva you just give to your opponent the opportunity to pull himself back in the game by dealing with your 5 drop extremely efficiently with dispels or removals.


#8

I left this for an hour because I felt it was obvious the same can be applied to kron for dispell and hard removal.

I don’t see the point you are trying to make


#9

Your opponent dispel your frostiva you are left with a 3/3, he dispel kron you are left with a 4/6 and the prisoner.
If you don’t see the difference well …

Me too, I don’t see in what universe Forstiva might be better than kron.


#10

That is literally not what I am trying to say, I replied twice trying to clarify but somehow you missed it


#11

Nobody is missing what you’re saying - they’re disagreeing. You knew from the start you had an opinion that wouldn’t be heavily agreed with so I don’t know what you expected here. You say that in ‘many’ cases Frostiva is better than Kron - then seem to be confused when people say they cannot see a situation where she’s better.


#12

Well I wont argue the point, it will just derail


#13