Duelyst Forums

'If anything is healed...' effects

#23

This Moonforge lancer does anything only against kelaino and shadowdancer. No other card heals you on your opponent turn.

Counter card should give you guaranteed value but this lancer can be easily countered fi your opponent is understanding what he is doing. And this moonforge lancer does not handle the threat itself, meaning it can be removed after getting 1 or 2 procs and thats all. No counter, no value, nothing. Just a useless card in the collection.

If you think that +1 attack is strong, then speak about vaath. Otherwise getting your own healprocs doesnt come cheap and easy.

#24

I run triple Lucent Beams, finish games using them all the time. Sunriser is semi-burst in the late game as well. I suppose you’re talking about top tier play specifically.

#25

The only problem I say healing needs is that something has to be injured in order for you to use healing zirans-bbs-problem is she can use it on full hp minions and that is wrong.

#26

If Ziran uses her BBS on a full health minion no healing occurs. No “on heal” effects trigger. Nothing is wrong.

What does trigger are bloodsurge keywords because they trigger when the BBS is used and not when healing occurs.

4 Likes
#27

Lucent Beam’s pretty cool. I suppose that would qualify as Burst potential. But you’re right in saying that I was referring to the most commonly-run Healynar lists.

#28

Excelsious only counts healing friendly guys so doesn’t count for “anything is healed”.
Ignore the poor wording on card.

1 Like
#29

So, Zi’Ran’s BBS was changed specifically to allow these abilities to interact with her being able to heal enemy minions. Really- it’s quite fine. If you’re worried about Lancers getting out of hand, you can always pack Lightbenders (the ATK is dispellable.) It’s a very slow engine that takes time and resources to get off the ground.

If you’re getting punished for Kelaino/Shadowdancer- perhaps the angle to look for is not just throw them out there “because you can.” If your opponent has an active Lancer, you should be replacing your Kelainos first anyways. If they drop a lancer while you have Kelaino, then they have 3 mana less to get extra procs. So, you just kindof got to roll with that.

1 Like
#30

I have recently checked and now Exelsious gets buffed by martydoming an enemy minion, so there is that.

1 Like
#31

The thing is that making all “on heal” cards having the effect trigger only of allies means something like “Deathwatch now triggers only from your minions dying.”, which is really terrible for Zir’an players. You are basicly taking away a layer of tactical opportuinities and counter potential and give nothing back, which cannot be taken positivly, especially when the cards, that have this trigger, are already not that OP.

#32

Only, that response takes resources, which is the exact reason why I’m saying this. If there is a lancer and zir’an on the board, and you have a shroud, and lancer has been put in the corner, you can use your shroud to dispel zir’an, but the sunforge is still there. Assuming ziran gets 1 heal proc on her turn, which is highly likely, you are essentially only able to deal with 1 of the 2 issues: the generals current attack, or the potential that she’ll get stronger on her next turn. Like many other cards in healyonar, lancer can get value that can’t be dealt with by a single card, which is an issue in most cases, since the majority of cards that do this are of a large cost.

#33

Against Zir’an, you should avoid using kelaino and shadowdancer unless it’s forced/you’re ahead and has decent board. You know it’s going to be used by your opponent so don’t let that happen. Also, Abyssian has strong lategame options which, against Zir’an it’s obviously going to be lategame anyway.

#34

Standard cards that answer a Sunforge Lancer include:
Aspect of the Fox
Chromatic Cold
Natural Selection (in most cases)
Thumping Wave
Plasma Storm
Sun Bloom
Ritual Banishing
Punish (If Cass w/ BBS)
Onyx Bear Seal
(If Argeon) Saberspine Tiger
Elucidator
Makantor Warbeast
Spectral Revenant
Ephemeral Shroud
Lightbender

This doesn’t even include pseudo answers such as Daemonic Lure, minion + Holy Immolation, Juxtaposition, Hearth Sister + Warbird, and Rasha’s Curse + Dune caster (I may have missed some for all I know)

And honestly, most threats in the game are going to require a resource to answer it. What would the game become if you didn’t have to use your resources to win?

#35

None of those deal with the fact that zir’an still has buffed attack. As I have already stated, very few cards can be completely dealt with by a single card, and those that can are way more expensive.

1 Like
#36

Yugioh, Kaijudo, Force of Will, similarly sMOrc-y TCGs with mass combo kills

Fifteen Characters

1 Like
#37

There are plenty of cards in the game that can get their value before you can answer them. Sunforge Lancer is not the lone wolf in that sense. And naturally, you’ll want to eliminate the minion before dispelling the enemy general (similar to eliminating something like Kelaino before going face). If you don’t run dispel, then your deck has that weakness, and every deck has a weakness.

Sure, it’s harder for some factions than others to answer this card (I’ve been playing plenty of Vetruvian. I know the feels. I promise :slightly_smiling_face:). But it’s natural for some matchups to be better for Zir’an than others.

It’s a strong card (there’s a reason it’s a staple for sure), but Zir’an needs a tool to make synergy from her heals rather than just healing for the sake of healing. It gives them that win condition that healing alone would not provide.

#38

What the hell are you talking about. It is a proactive card and would work fine. Besides, as I already said three times it is not about this card. Read the fucking thread first before you answer next time.

#39

You showed no real point in why heal anything triggers are bad.[quote=“ezekeel, post:1, topic:8684”]
counters mindless face rush decks
[/quote]

I see no problem in the fact that control-oriented mechanic counters other control oriented mechanic. Its not like cards with this trigger are aggro cards.

the ability to counter heal does, not the heal itself.[quote=“ezekeel, post:38, topic:8684”]
it is not about this card
[/quote]

Is it?

#40

I am in no way saying that ziran is broken, or sunforge for that matter. All I’m saying is that the heal on enemies is unneeded for sunforge, as it is a game changing card and because it serves as both a tech card in addition to providing its regular benefit.

2 Likes
#41

Thank Makantor at least one person understood the point I was trying to communicate.

#42

This topic was automatically closed 14 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.