I don’t know what to do anymore. Maybe I’m playing the absolute worst Archetypes against it (Healyonar and SimcityVet). I seem to lose to it every time. I’ve met the infuriating variant where they run 11 spells (and Makantor) that are designed to make sure you can’t play Duelyst. I’ve also met the very interactive archetype involving throwing rush minions at you, bringing them back and throwing them at you again and eventually blowing your face off with the oh so fun Eluci + Thumping Wave combo. Which even Mogwai called BS. I need help, don’t know how to beat this faction anymore.
Well, simcity tends to get shit on by by the plasma storms they often run and healyonar is just a subpar deck in general. It’s no wonder you’re getting your ass handed to you. Either way, it might help if we could actually see the lists you’re running. I don’t think there’s much you can do with simcity due to the nature of the deck but the healyonar deck might have some room for improvement.
I don’t know about rush Magmar, as I’ve never played it, but Lilith swarm can be tricky for me to win against (I play control magmar). Constantly having wraithlings basically nullifies natural selection. Just make sure to not put high priority targets near each other to get Makantor’ed, don’t surround them as to avoid getting rekt by iridium scale, stay away from them when their general +8 (bounded lifeforce) would kill you. Also try to bait out the plasma storm and keep enough cards in hand/4+ minions on board so as to still have board presence against plasma strom.
This is the Healyonar deck I’ve been running, seems to work fairly well for me against pretty much everything but Magmar and SimcityVet (which I know is a terrible matchup). I don’t have some of the more expensive cards utilized fairly commonly like Arclyte (have only 1), Solarius or Sky Phalanx (both of which I have none). I do have a third Elyx available however.
This is one of the lists, made by F8, I haven’t used it in a short while due it being slightly out of date, but when I play SimCityVet, I tend to alternate between this list and the one below.
This is the alternate list I sometimes run, made by Tundranocaps. Which one I choose kinda depends on what I feel like running.
Otherwise, the only list I play anymore is your Aggro/Combo ArtiVet, which I pull out every once in a while to have some fun. My Songhai lists are kinda covered in dust.
I agree that Magmar is really frustrating right now. The strategies I see are mostly just them removing everything I put down w/ either plasma storm, natural selection, or egg morph, and hitting me in the face.
There doesn’t seem to be a clear counter to Magmar (like w/ Reva vs. Cassyva), but there may be some options. Since Vaath is vulnerable to running out of cards in hand, he usually places in a few Sojourners and makes a very specific mana curve, allowing them to play a single good card per turn. Eliminating w/out damaging or dispelling the Sojourners is one option. Starhorn is another, since their curve isn’t really adapted to playing more than one card per turn.
Cassyva is less susceptible to Plasma storm. Sajj is obviously a better Vet choice than Zirix, and can avoid taking some damage (Blast artifact or 3/3 +2 damage invulnerable minion) while cleaning up his minions.
But yeah, overall, I’m not that excited about Vaath being up on the meta. He’s not very clever or complicated to play, and predicable to play against.
This, this frustrates me to no end and I don’t know what to do about it. I’m not sure if it’s me not understanding how to play around it, or what counters it, maybe the strategy is just a bit too strong right now. I have no idea.
I’m not an expert on Healyonar or Lyonar in general, but the deck you’re running seems to go all in on the synergy. And when it comes to ziran, I don’t think it’s a good idea as focusing too much on it lowers the overall consistency of the deck. Personally, if I were to improve the deck, not only against magmar, but in general, I’ll add remove some spells and add in high value bodies instead that require removal, specifically cliffes. Once magmar runs out of egg morphs and is using thumping wave or rush minions as a form of removal means you’re getting the upper hand. So let’s give him some removal targets. Elyx are good, I think they’re relaly underrated, but the decks needs more.
Alright, that seems like a good place to start, what would you suggest I remove?
In addition to 'cliffes, are Dioltas a good idea in a deck like this?
Probably remove fizz, having 2 2-drops that heal is enough, and fizz is the worst imo. Dioltas isn’t too good, as you don’t have DB.
For reference, this is the deck I’m using. Again, have in mind that I didn’t really play it all that much but I do prefer it over something like yours that runs lots of spells and a low amount of high quality minions. Seeing as ziran is an inferior general, I tried to keep the deck as closest to the lyonar roots while it having just enough synergy to justify running the general. This way you get your neat ziran combos while at the same time having similar consistency to your average midrange argeon.
You could throw in Night Watcher as a tech card, because the problem here seems to be the rush minions.
Yea Zirix and Ziran are the worst match ups against Vaath as they are both very vulnerable to Natural Selection, and Plasma which is where the bulk of mags control comes from. Its sort of why I don’t play Obelysk/dervish vet any more. Aregon is basically immune to those two cards, and most other decks can just go light on dropping less then 3 power. Obelysk can still beat it but you need to be conservative with your fireblazes and use them as combos with whisper the same turn you put them down. I have no real expeirence with Ziran so I guess just best of luck.
If its KeeperMagmar remember they have a very slow game, be really aggressive, as they struggle before 6 mana. Be very aware of natural selection, try not to play lower power then what they have out, and if you have an important threat don’t play it on an empty board by its self. Eggmorph is also fairly easy to play around by summoning your threats out of Vaaths Reach. Remember Vath and Cass love it when the game drags out more then anyone else. Don’t be afraid to dispel Vaath, there are very few units that are usually run in the mainstream magmar that require a dispel. Midrange can be a little tougher, they wont have that dedicated control package and will often be aggressive. So unlike solo, rush, or keeper Vath it does not like the late game nearly as much as it struggles with card advantage, so being a little more passive against them is ok. And as always remember to play things diagonally because all Magmar decks runs Mankantor.
As for hating that control style…well its a hell of a lot better then the Aggro Face meta in my opinion, and its only fair that there is at least some good control reactive styles.
I’m willing to give it a try. I haven’t got 3 Arclyte’s. So I was considering adding a 3rd shroud, a 3rd Lucent Beam (love that spell) and I’m not sure what else. Why don’t you run Sunbloom? (considering the 1/1 body doesn’t tend to be a good heal target lol). What does your deck do for AoE? Considering you don’t run Skorn or Tempest.
I’m bad and sunbloom can be clunky to play so I just went for shrouds instead. Body despite being small also has it’s perks ie taking mana tiles, blocking paths etc. About AoE, I’d rather just rely on holy immo and sunriser then putting even more of it and lowering the consistency of the deck. If it makes the matchup against swarm worse so be it. When it comes to magmar specifically, does anyone but memers even run burst? That card was bad before and is still bad for the same reasons.
What would I replace the Arclyte’s with? I have one, dont know if its worth putting in as a one-of
Prolly not. I’d add one more elixir purely for when you’re playing a big body + elixir or two for them swing turns which helps specifically a lot against magmar. And I’d fill the other 2 spots with Elyxs.
Alright, perfect. I’ll test it out for a bit and see how it does!
The single best card that you can have in the Magmar match-up (which does favour Magmar a lot unless you play a more swarmy-Lyonar list that can put out 2 minions a turn) is Arclyte. Their removal doesn’t interact at all with it and their one-shot minions trade poorly against your Arclyte charges while you can spend your turns on developing a board.
Yup and Arclyte Regalia and Dawn’s eye combo is just game over.