How I feel about Vetruvian


#1

It feels wrong to write this post with Shim’zar around the corner but I just couldn’t keep to myself anymore. I don’t even know how to describe my feelings right now: Sad? Mad? Upset? Disappointed? besides, we don’t have any official dates. You can take it as a rant, complaint, I don’t care. I’m just voicing my opinion.

[details=Warning]

  • This post might contain inappropriate language, so if you easily feel offended you might not like it.
  • This post might be too honest for your liking.
  • It could also be too long so… Grab a cup of coffee, sit down and enjoy your reading :slight_smile:[/details]

Remember when Vetruvian used to be great? They were always on the top spot. People feared them. They would play very carefully whenever they faced a Vetruvian: Lign up to prevent them from unleashing the fury of the stars on them. Disperse themselves to avoid a laser beam coming up from nowhere: Vetruvian’s Golden Age. But then, people had enough! Living in the shadows of the Vetruvian, always competing for the second spot… They rebelled.

They complained about everything that made the Vetruvian so great: The Portal Guardians, the Wildfire Ankh, the Starfire Scarab, the Aymara Healers, the Stars’ Fury, their ability to bend time and finally, the Scion’s Third Wish: their strongest spell.
It wasn’t long before the Vetruvian Imperium crumbled. All what made them so great was suddenly gone… They were knocked out from the top spot to the bottom of the list…

Sorry, I couldn’t come up with a better way to describe it :stuck_out_tongue:

I feel like Counterplay is doing it wrong: taking without giving something in return (unintentional FMA reference) is wrong. By no means I claim to know better than the design team, but that’s exactly what happened to Vetruvian: they started taking out all the key cards that made Vetruvian good without giving them anything in return to balance their loss. Third Wish? Gone! (twice) Starfire Scarab? Nerfed! Stars’ fury? Nerfed! Wildfire Ankh? Nerfed! Portal Guardian? Nerfed! Time Maelstrom? Bum! Gone! And what’s what they get in return? 2 shitty Bloodborn spells! Yes, the worst of the batch! (After Starhorn, of course.) Now Vetruvian is, and without question,

[details=the weakest faction]

These are the factions ranked by various well known players. Notice how no Vetruvian deck makes it past the 10th spot. They even take the last spot in 3 of them of them. [/details]

I am well aware that it’s a difficult faction to balance due to their complexity, the proof is Zirix’s Bloodborn Spell: The “Face Monkey” deck was top tier and when the spell was changed… Bum! To the bottom of the list!

As a Vetruvian fan boy main, it’s heartbreaking to see your favorite faction going down, reduced to rubbish. It’s so sad to see the most interesting faction so low…

[details=This is killing all the fun for me]

Do you see that? And guess what? February is where all started: First, the changes to Portal Guardian, Stars’ Fury and the first Third Wish. And then the rest followed.

I’ve been having a very hard time keeping up with the other factions, and if that alone wasn’t enough, the metagame became super fast, only aggro on the ladder and as a control player, that hurt a lot.

I’ve been enjoying the game until that season, then all the fun I’ve been having was suddenly killed. As a consequence, now I gave up on my rank and I’m just goofing around with different decks trying to find something that will satisfy me, just a way to kill time instead of playing seriously. I only play 2-4 games per day and then quit usually taking breaks of 30m to 1h between each one of them. I’m sure I’m not the only player affected.[/details]

Edit

For some reason, the last 2 spoilers aren’t hiding… Now even the forum is against me…

A little bit more thought could be put before starting to carelessly take out card after card, literally butchering the faction. I’m not trying to be rude, but that’s what I feel it’s happening.
3/6 Epics and 2/4 Legendaries (without counting Saon) were nerfed. In comparison to other factions, this is ridiculous.

  • Songhai: 3 Legendaries and 2 Epics were nerfed, 1 basic was buffed, but they can still stand strong after all they’ve been through.
  • Lyonar: 1 basic was nerfed, 1 Epic, 1 basic and 1 common were buffed.
  • Magmar: 1 Legendary, 1 rare and 1 common were nerfed. They lost Mana Burn, that knocked them from the top spot, but they can still compete totally fine in high ranks.
  • Vanar: They’ve only seen buffs, not a single nerf. Plus, they got Mana Burn (which was a terrible idea. Like if they needed more single target removal…)
  • Abyssian: 3 Epics and 1 common nerfed, 1 common buffed.

In addition to that, they all got good Bloodborn spells to balance their losses.

Vetruvian? 3 Epics, 2 Legendaries and 1 common nerfed, 2 basics buffed. I can’t even tell if the Second Wish change was a nerf or a buff, but it was a direct hit to their independent drawing capabilities. Like if they needed more buffing cards… Only Oserix and Aymara survived the apocalypse because they’re on the weak side. It won’t be long before Aymara also goes down, enjoy her company while you can!

Wheather Shim’zar will make justice or not… It’s very unlikely. Yeah, yeah, “we don’t know all cards yet” “It’s too early to jump into conclusions” but judging by the first leaked card: “Opening Gambit: reduce the cost of all your structure minions by 1” this isn’t promising. It’s already 1 bad card out of 12(?) compared to the other ones. The Obelysks and Bastion are already cheap to summon. There will probably be 2 or 3 more structures coming with a cost ranging between 2 and 4 mana, probably a 5 cost one, so I don’t see this card being that good.

The other factions have somehow grown stronger over the past year, but all what Vetruvian did is grow weaker season, after season. When Shim’zar drops, that will mean more strenght to the other factions as well. There will surely be a couple of broken cards. Will Vetruvian be able to catch up? I don’t think so, unless they get 2-3 broken legendaries they might have a chance.

As I stated earlier: I’m not trying to be rude (I’m just in a bad mood). The design team can sometimes make bad decisions, but they are sooo obvious! Without counting the total chaos the Alpha was: Songweaver was a mistake, Sunsteel Defender was a mistake, Lantern Fox was a mistake, Jaxi was a mistake, Keeper of the Vale was clearly a mistake, Martyrdom was a mistake, Kara is a mistake, Chakram will most likely be another mistake,

[details=Divine Bond is a mistake]
I lost faith in the developers when they reduced the cost of DBond. I was really hoping that card to disappear but nope! They buffed it instead! But we’re not here to talk about that. It will be going into a separate thread. There’s so much this card is doing wrong. [/details]


Solution:

Well Mr. Know-it-all, what’s the deal?

When we talk about balance, people tend to look at the Legendary and Epic cards. They forget something important: the little ones also contribute to the power level of the faction. So I’m here to discuss just that.

When a card is fine, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s happy like that: we could push it forward a little bit more without making it game breaking.

With this continuously evolving metagame, some cards become outdated, completely outclassed by the new ones or there’s no longer use of them when certain cards disappear.
Let’s say… When your computer becomes old and outdated, you’ll most likely want to buy a new one or upgrade it. The same principle applies here: If a card becomes weak because it is no longer useful, we can’t just turn a blind eye one it because it didn’t cause any trouble in the past. A redesign will most likely be needed to adapt it to this ever changing metagame.

These are the cards I feel we can patch to “squeeze” a little bit more power out of them without overdoing it. They are ideas that randomly pop in my head while playing.

Sand Trap

My question is: Why the hell isn’t this a tile effect?! Why?! It doesn’t make any sense!

My suggestion: Keep the cost as is and change the text to: “Choose a tile. Enemy minions that step on that tile can no longer move.”

By “minions that step on that tile” I mean even if they want to walk through it. Their movement will be interrupted and they’ll be trapped.

Voilà! It makes perfect sense now! Besides, it’s another tile effect outside of Shadow Creap.

Long story short : a trap.

Fountain of Youth

Raise your hand if you’ve seen this card played at least once.
Lower your hand Timmy! sigh
As expected, no one…

My suggestion : Keep the cost as is, the effect as well but add: “Restore 2 health to your general for each healed minion”

The General has also the right to rejuvenate… Besides, it’s very hard to have more than 2 minions on the field…
It’s essentially another healing option outside of Aymara.

Windstorm Obelysk

The worst Obelysk. The Vetruvian are inventors (according to the lore), and a good inventor always finds a way to improve their creations so…

My suggestion: Keep the cost as is, the body and the ability as well but add: “they can move 1 extra tile”

“Wind” makes me think of “move freely” and flying, but giving them flying is off question. So I opted for a similar effect. Plus, it pairs very well with Zirix’s Bloodborn redesign that I will suggest later on. It gives the Poop Dervishes a purpose.

Entropic Decay

This one is tricky…

My suggestion : Reduce it’s cost to 3.

Okay, I know what you’re thinking, but first, let me take a selfie(…pun out of place) tell you something:

Vetruvian excels at long-ranged combat. They can keep their distance and control the board at the same time. All the Flying and Blast options they have prove that. Just give them some room to breathe and you’re screwed.

Comparing EDecay to it’s counterparts we have:

  • Martyrdom: It used to cost 3, then lowered to 2 and the increased back to 3. It has infinite range and the drawback is that it heals the owner of that minion. It can also be used on your own for an emergency healing or to trigger Dying Wishes immediately. It outclasses Entropic Decay.

  • Onyx bear seal: Cost 3, infinite range and the drawback is: it transforms the enemy into a 0/2 that cannot be attacked. Is that really a drawback? A 0/2 is useless unless you have a way transform it into a threat. It outclasses Entropic Decay.

  • Aspect of the Fox: Cost 1, infinite range, transforms without triggering Dying Wish nor Death Watch. The drawback? It transforms the enemy into a 3/3 with no abilities. It’s very easy to kill it in the same turn so it’s not a very big deal. It outclasses Entropic Decay.

  • Egg Morph: Cost 4, infinite range, it doesn’t trigger Dying Wish, the drawback? It transforms the enemy into a 0/1 egg that hatches into the same minion after a full turn. Is that really a drawback? I don’t think so. Entropic Decay is outclassed once again.

  • Dark Transformation: cost 5, infinite range, it destroys a minion and summons a wraithling on that tile. The drawback? It triggers Dying Wish. It’s a tie due to it’s cost.

Entropic Decay however, requires your general to be in a position where you can reach your target in the next turn, forcing you to put yourself in harms range. Your opponent can easily take advantage of that luring you to a valuable ED target and then closing in on you.
This limitation doesn’t justify it’s cost.

Oserix

I know I said “little cards” but compared to Grandmaster Z’ir, Spectral Revenant, Dank Nemesis, the asexual lizard and Pandora this card is sh!t. It’s so slow it’s effect never triggers.

My suggestion: Keep the cost, change the stats to 6/6, keep the flying but change the Dying wish to Opening Gambit: "Equip a random artifact from your deck."
I believe this was the effect of the old Artifact Hunter… Oh well…

Spectral Revenant has immediate value, Grandmaster also, if you suicide the same turn and Pandora as well. You’re paying 7 mana to get a 6/6 Flying minion and equip a random artifact from your deck. That’s generally your only play for that turn.

A 7 drop is worth 20 stats (Dragonbone Golem as a reference), the flying ability is worth 1 stat (Putrid dreadflyer as a reference) so that’s 19 stats left. An opening gambit this strong would be worth 6-8 stats. So that’s 12-13 stats left. Or heck! I’m not good with minions! I just want it’s ability to be an opening gambit!

This would really give a push to Vetruvian’s late-game.

As you can see, they’re practically the same. Instead of coming up with total reworks, I wanted to keep the original idea but tweak it a little tiny bit to give Vetruvian a little bit more power…

Bloodborn Spells

Psionic Strike

“Your general deals double damage to minions this turn.”
(Couldn’t find the card image)

There’s nothing bad with the idea it’s just… Badly implemented.

First, you have to reach the minion and second, you have to smack your face on it. This wouldn’t be a problem if we had infinite Hexblades.

Zirix has the ability to open portals to other dimensions (that’s from where the Dervishes come from according to the lore), so if Zirix has the ability of an Obelysk… Why not give Sajj the ability of an artifact?
So I came up with this: Keep the current effect and add: “Receive half the damage from them” (rounded up)
The added effect is essentially a weak 6version of Hexblade.

Take a moment to look at the sprite and make a connection with the effect. That alone suggests It’s something to do with “playing with your opponent’s head”, altering their senses? Reducing their strength perhaps?
If you reduce your opponent’s defense by half (current effect), it makes sense to reduce their strength by half as well (new effect). So you deal double damage to them and receive half the damage in return because you’ve weakened them.

A few examples: If you attack a Healing Mystic with your Bloodborn, you deal 4 damage and receive only 1 in return. Attack windblade adept: deal 4, receive 2. Attack an Ironcliffe Guardian: deal 4, receive 2 (1.5 rounded up) and so on.

Your opponent will want to keep his minions out of Sajj’s range so Entropic Decay is completely useless unless they make a mistake. That’s another reason to lower it’s cost.

Iron Shroud

Terrible, absolutely terrible…

  • First: The random spawn doesn’t make any sense now that it’s no longer a Wind Shroud. How come Riva can choose where to summon the Heartseeker and not Zirix?

  • Second: The Dervish is totally useless. It’s just a vanilla 2/2 with no particular use. Lilithe can use her wraithlings as sacrifices. Vetruvian doesn’t have any use of it.

  • Third: What’s with the name? Iron? Really? All I can see is Sand! Sand Dervish would’ve been a more fitting name. Between that and the second point, it earned the name “Poop Dervish”, useless as a sh!t.

My suggestion: Keep the random spawn and give the Dervish Provoke.

The Wind Shroud has rush, so why not give the Iron dervish a keyword ability as well? If future Dervishes are added, they could each have a keyword: Fire Dervish with Frenzy, Water Dervish with Forcefield etc. Iron… It’s a sturdy material although they’re clearly made of sand… So Provoke is a fitting ability.
Now the random spawn makes more sense! It still dies to the general so it’s not a very big deal. They can prevent some damage if you’re lucky with the spawn.
They can be used alongside with Windstorm Obelysk 2.0 to give them a purpose in life. And if you’re lucky enough to get a swarm going on… You have Fountain of Youth to keep it up and heal at the same time!
Bum! a new complex synergy created from existing cards!

Will these changes make Vetruvian top tier again? I doubt it. But will they make them viable again? Most likely yes. They’ll be able to climb a couple spots in the rankings.

These Bloodborns would enhance Vetruvian’s Control play style, it’s their speciality right? And they’re practically the same as the original ones! Just slightly tweaked.

Just one last thing, it doesn’t really have anything to do with the balance of the faction but:

Starfire Scarab has a blue blast so I was thinking… What if we distinguish the generals with different blast colors? :grin:
We could give the blue one to Sajj since she has a blue sword, and Zirix can keep his orange blast because he has a fire weapon… I’m a big fan of small details like this :stuck_out_tongue:


Please CounterPlay, I humbly beg of you, make it happen! Make Vetruvian great again! I’ll give up my Prismatic Serpenti if it’s a price to pay :cry:

I’d be happy to see at least the Bloodborn Spells changed.

Note

I wanted to serve the thread with a little bit of salt but my hand slipped… I’m sorry!! :stuck_out_tongue:

Heck! Why am I even bothering… When was the last time I’ve seen a suggestion make it to the game? Oh! It never happened!


Duelyst Patch 1.71 – Duelyst
What's your favorite high-view count thread?
#2

I feel you bro D:


#3

Yeap, we know your pain. I was trying to build a vet deck (no artivet, that i’ve already tried enough, got beaten by spellhai enough times to even try again), I took 10 hours splitted between 2 days straight and i found nothing that could have potential. While i came up with a few synergies, does synergies are basically “you need X minion on board and if its answered, good luck”.

PD: I forgot to mention I love your change to windstorm, it’s really interesting and it could save some horrible spawns :slight_smile:


#4

What the duck . this made me laugh so hard my stomach hurts


#5

Feels bad man :(, i hope your faction gets some love on shim’zar


#6

I’m a new player and Vetruvian is the style I found I liked the most.

Then I was told it was one of the strongest until just before I started playing and now is weak. :slight_smile:

I hope it gets improved in the expansion so I can play it more!


#7

you can play any deck you want in silver and bronze rank . in gold it gets tricky , and diamond is where mostly meta and good decks are played . S-rank players are meta only players
so dont worry for now :smiley:


#8

My favorite faction thematically. Would love to see devs give some love to them so I can play them more.


#9

I wanted to reply earlier, but my phone had died while I was reading this 3 hours ago :cry:. I really like the changes you’ve suggested, especially regarding their BBSs and Oserix. With the espansion, I hope they add some cards to help protect their obelysks/structures, such as a minion that protects them from dispell as long as it is on the field. Also, what are your thoughts on making pyromancer a 2/2? The +1 health would save them from 1 damage pings, and at the same time it would still be weak to dispell, ranged, and almost all 2 drops that get too close while efffectively making it a somewhat safer play.


#10

I thought of that too but then Vale Hunter has 3 stats for a 2 drop with ranged, so it makes sense for Pyromancer to have 3 stats and blast.
I think giving it +1 health would be too much, besides, Vetruvian can buff it easily outside of AoE range such as Blistering Skron and Tempest. I wouldn’t mind it being a 1 drop 1/1 with blast so you can use First Wish in the first turn to save it from a Bloodtear Alchemist. That would be more appropriate then giving it +1 health.

I like the idea of having a structure acting like spell shield or damage reduction as long as it’s on the field… The Vetruvian are inventors so they can do anything :slight_smile:

PS: Sorry about that! Post too long :stuck_out_tongue:


#11

I can understand that… Blast can get out of hand if it’s too strong, but their can be really slow to play most of the time. Overall, I just really want dinner blast and obelysk support. Also, it wasn’t that long, no need to apologize :smile_cat:


#12

Wow, really nice ideas. I like all of them.
I never used Oserix so my brain automatically assumed it was an Opening gambit when reading the effect! It really sucks.


#13

Ok. SO. I read this way earlier in the day, and didn’t comment because I didn’t have the time to type up an essay in reply that would be suitable for the amazing essay you’ve typed above.

I am a Vet main, have been since I joined. I chose Vet because they looked cool and with my background being middle-eastern, sand and fire were kinda my thing. I joined after the nerfs for what it’s worth, I didn’t get to experience the power that was the first iteration of STW (+3 Attack to 3 minions) nor the one after (+3/+3 and blast) nor did I get to experience 4 mana Star’s Fury, 0/9 Portal Guardian, or 4/7 Dream-Destroying Scarab hehe.

What I received was what was commonly knows as Face-Monkey Zirix with the very powerful BBS, now I was an absolute N00B back then and had no idea what deck archetypes were, I was just struggling to make my pathetic deck work. I later learned that Vet relied on some rather expensive cards to make the magic happen. So, instead of switching, I decided to stick to it and grind it out, eventually getting the 3 Aymara’s I’d had my eyes on for a couple weeks and I quickly decided that Aymara Healer was my absolute favourite (<-- yeah, there’s a u there, I’m Canadian, deal with it) card in the game.

I read through this glorious essay, and I must say, I was smiling with relief. ALL the changes, and misunderstand me not, ALL THE CHANGES are absolutely amazing and reflect some of my own thoughts as to what was weak within the faction and needed some tuning.

It felt unfair to lose to things as cheesy as Divine Bond + ICGuardian, simply because I hadn’t drawn EDecay, ESiphon or didn’t have enough damage on board to flat out kill it. I have died to a double DB on tombstone. I have lost unfairly to things such as Holy Immolation and Makantor Warbeast.
People tell you to spread out your minions to counter Makantor, the problem is that Frenzy has such a large effective area and the Rush gives it unprecedented reach that trying to play around is simply forcing you to disengage and putting yourself into a position where it would take 2 turns just to close the gap again.

This reflected my thoughts on what the faction was supposed to excel at.

This pointed out something I hadn’t noticed before, EDecay is the ONLY hard-removal spell that has a crippling range limitation, while Magmar’s only requires an allied minion in range, or a bloodtear can do the
job as well, and all the others having no limitation on the range, but including other drawbacks. EDecay feels like it fits better in a faction that likes to get close and personal and in your face and wouldn’t be bothered by the range limitation as much as Vetruvian, a long range faction, is.

This. This is all I wish for, I don’t care if Vetruvian rules the ladder or not, all I want is for the faction to atleast have a fair chance against the other factions.

As for this, I was thinking it was because while the Ankh and the Pyro generated normal fire, the Scarab generated, the mind-blowing, dream-destroying, hp-incinerating, value-generating… STARFIRE. Jokes aside, it’d be cool, to see some other minions with blast, or even just ones that use a Starfire theme to differentiate between the colours, and changing the colour of Sajj’s blast to blue would be pretty awesome and represent her psionically enhanced strikes with her BBS, translating to the blast of fire.

I second this. although I don’t have a Prismatic Serpenti, I do have a Prismatic Arrow Whistler.

Phew, I think that covers what I wanted to say… hopefully

P.S. If you have any minions ideas or things you have, I’d be happy to listen to em and give feedback.

-Phayze, Captain of the guard of the House of Starstrider.


#14

Thanks for the valuable feedback! It feels great knowing that there are some Vetruvians out there who think the same!

I agree with this, but it can also fit in Vetruvian:
I think what the devs meant by including such card in a faction like this is a warning: “Don’t get too close or I’ll incinerate you!” but since EDecay is so expensive and limited to cast it hardly sees play, so the opponent doesn’t have to fear it: Losing a minion to a 4 mana spell that forces its caster into bad positioning isn’t a big deal.


#15

I’ve been playing for close to a year and until all the nerfs came Verturvian was the only faction I played. It would still be that way but they just can’t compete with the other factions. Counter Play please restore Verturvian to its former glory.


#16

Hey! :slight_smile: A big Vetruvian zealot myself and yeah I agree with you that the nerfs have finally caught up and broke the factions back. I do agree we really need buffs and I do like most of your ideas, I don’t think that this is what the Vet faction needs.

Sand Trap- Isn’t this a nerf? What’s the point in changing it from a root to something that needs to be activated to achieve the same effect? While I agree it could be interesting to block off spaces to buy time wouldn’t it be more effective to just snare a Taygette instead of setting a trap if I wanted it to stay away? Sand Trap isn’t a bad card right now, it’s great versus big Abyssian and Magmar. Unfortunately it’s very iffy versus everyone else:/

Fountain of Youth- Personally I like this change, I like how it rewards you for maintaining a board and would definetly be a good one of in Zirix zoo decks.

Windstorm- Windstorm is iffy in my mind. Your change is good but with the release of Zirix’s new BBS I’m not sure if it’s a bad card. The problem with it right now is that there’s little reason to give HP to dervishes outside of Iron Shroud and Orb Weaver and the anti synergy with Stars’ Fury. If we get more dervishes that benefit from extra hp it could be a reasonable card. But if we don’t yeah your suggestion is good.

Entrophic Decay- Definitely what the card needs. Would make this card SOOO much more useful than just being a tech card versus Magmar and Lynor. Maybe too good but would definetly help the faction a ton.

Oserix- I use Oserix every now and then in my Midrange Sajj decks. It’s a situational finisher versus Abyssian and Magmar. I would prefer it to equip a random artifact/Ankh/ Staff/ Hexblade etc so it’s isn’t so limited to artifact decks. But otherwise good suggestion.

Like I said I do like these buffs but I feel that they don’t really address the core issues with the faction(But then again you did mention these are little things). Right now I think the biggest issue with Vet are: how unreliable and slow are minions are, lack of a clear win condition and lack of comeback mechanics/removal. But those are just my opinions on the faction. Anyway good read, nice job with the article! :slight_smile:

Also do you mind if I ask you how Vet was before February? I’m trying to write my own small article on the Vet faction(I’m a Sajj main so I wanted to write something outlining her flaws and problems) and I wanted to know Vet’s state before the December nerfs(I joined right after the during the Third Wish Meta.). Thanks! :slight_smile:


#17

Nope, this isn’t a nerf. The current sand trap can be cast only on minions, its effect disappears if the minion is dispelled or dies. The tile sand trap can also be cast on minions trapping them directly like the current one, but, if only the minion is dispelled or dies, the tile stays intact unless you dispel the tile so it can be reused with Repulsor Beast or strategic positioning later on for example, besides, it can also target spell shields such as Mechaz0r, Sand Howler and Aegis barrier, something the current Sand Trap can’t do. Notice how weak is Vetruvian against spell shields…

If Iron Shroud ever gets Provoke as I suggested, this would be huge: The general will no longer be able to 1 shot them and the extra movement enables you to back off with your general, summon the Dervish (Random spawn) and reach what you want to slow down quickly before it gets too close.

Yes you’re right. Their minions are slow and weak to dispel. They also lack a clear win condition since Third Wish and Time Maelstrom were nerfed. Right now they only win by slowly wearing down the opponent enough to get a kill with Stars’ Fury or with the artifacts.

Well… You could build pretty much anything you wanted and it was guaranteed to be viable, name it aggro, midrange, control, sabotage, artifacts, they excelled at every archetype. They had a very powerful late-game if not the strongest: They could even beat Control Magmar at their own game which was rated top deck at that time.

Starfire Scarab being a 4/7 was one of the best 5 drops. It was able to survive a lot of different things which made of him a very big threat if played early in the game and in late-game if your opponent had wasted his removal on other things.

Third Wish (give +3 attack to 3 minions) was their main win condition: 15 damage out of nowhere with Stars’ Fury. It was funny to see everyone forming conga lines whenever they faced them.

Third Wish (give a minion +3/+3 and blast). No longer forming conga lines. They could transform anything into a big threat, even the little Panddo, but especially Saberspine Tiger aka Laser Cat. (The Frenzy + Blast interaction was hilarious btw)

Time Maelstrom (9 mana, Take an extra turn) Oh boy… This card… You can’t even imagine all the sh!t that you could pull off with it… It was one of the strongest late-game cards in the game.

Wildfire Ankh used to cost 2 so you could equip it turn 1 and the rest you know… Play the evade game until you win if your opponent can’t break it + Stars’ Fury and Third Wish being a thing… Form lines and get incinerated by Blast or disperse and get slaughtered by Dervishes? It was a nightmare for your opponent.

sigh Good ol’ times… I hope I provided enough information :slight_smile:
If you need anything else just ask and I’ll be happy to reply.


#18

Hey! :slight_smile: Do you mind if I ask you some questions for my article? Like I mentioned it’s mostly about Sajj and it would really help to get some one else opinion on the matter.

-What’s your opinion on the current iteration of Sajj?

-What role do you think she’s most optimally played in? Midrange, control, combo, etc.

-Do you think she’s flawed? If so why? And what do you think she needs to be viable?

Thanks for your opinion!:slight_smile:


#19

Hey! Ive seen you around before, I’d be happy to give a bit of my own opinion on Vet stuff, I joined around the same time as you, after the STW nerf.

I wish I’d gotten to use this, it was basically “Give your minions and general celerity and draw a card”

It’s… meh, I feel she’s a bit underpowered but she can be absolutely amazing in the right situation.
I have to say either Combo or Midrange, I’ve been having some decent luck with a Midrange Sajj deck so far that messes up the Magmar decks running around. Combo of course has the crazy potential to one-shot the enemy general if your artifacts survive.

Yes. definitely. She has a good BBS concept, but like ferenzy said:

This, I agree with wholeheartedly, It’s an amazing idea to give it that little push it needs.


#20

The changes you suggested seem pretty solid. The big problem with Vet is that everything is: ‘‘oh, if this sticks, I win’’! And when the faction is so weak to dispel, that is a horrible thing to have going for you in this dispel meta. almost every game I play is playing to bait out the dispels, so Ayamara sticks and saves my ass. It does not help that Vet has no real out of hand dmg outside Tiger+second wish(Edit: and of course, Dunecaster into Wind Dervish), which is okay, but only has five dmg reach, and the Tiger rarely lives though the next turn unless you are super lucky.

I mostly play Sajj and I really like your suggestion to fixing her bbs. It’s not exactly an overpowered change, and helps her gameplan of trading health for board control. And a change like it really needs to happen, especially if they are going to keep Vaath’s hero power. Currently, Sajj’s bbs is useful only some of the time (and mostly useless against aggro), while Vaath, after using his hero power only once, now trades with practically every two drop in the game (not to forget Magmar has far better healing options than Vet). Personally I thought up this fix: ‘‘double damage to minions, your hero does not get counterattacked this turn’’. This change would help out artifact decks immensely, saving one crucial artifact durability, making it more likely that the Artifact survives till your next turn. It also makes the Hero power more useful against smaller minions (like wrathlings), as you are able to save yourself from some incremental dmg (and don’t have to waste an artifact charge hitting one if you do). Basically, it incentivizes you to actually use your hero power, and makes it far more useful, like it should be. Yours does make sense with the current iteration of the hero power, and accomplishes many of the same things, while probably being less problematic, tho it’s hard to know how things would work in practice.

The changes to the cards also makes sense and I would welcome changes like those, tho Sand Trap would be more interesting if it’s mana cost was increased 3, now affected 4x4 squars, and expired after a turn of use. It would give Vet a really good stall card akin to Sleep in Magic, and is fully possible to play around. Maybe even some Dervish synergy could be made while they were standing on the Sand Trap tiles, but that’s just theorycrafting. 3 mana should be okay, Sand Trap would basically be a slightly better Tremor in most cases.