Duelyst Forums

How do you like our new meta?

I really like the changes. Pets in general have proven to be well balanced, and add a new form of strategy to the game. Take into account that i was very sceptical in the beginning. Cassy even though still strong, just feels less frustrating to lose to. You know Obliterate is coming, do sth about it.
Shadow Nova was just bullshit, when some games were like: ‘ok, he is going to nova next turn, let me spread out, so that he can either go face or kill my minions’ ‘shadow novas’ ‘i am just gonna develop some new minions’ ‘shadow novas again’ ‘shit, i am off of lethal by 1 with my tiger’ ‘shadow novas a third time for lethal’. Karas BBS in a vacuum is still bullshit, but atm it doesn’t really feel as cancerous, due to the other factions buff. Many things got (semi) viable, like Healyonar, ZooLyonar, maybe even controlhai and what not. Magmar kinda is the unloved child, because Starhorn is still pretty shitty and has no support, and egg and growmar seem to be nonexistent. Lilithe also is still dead, even though i think she might have potential by going a full wraithling route. Vetruvian is so great now. Its fun, balanced and i just love it.

As far as songhai is concerned: Idk about combohai. People seem to be really crazy about this, but out of the 6 or 7 games i played vs. it (mostly with Control sajj) i didn’t lose a single one. Seemed really inconsistent and hard to play to me.

be happy you didnt run into otk songhai, i always defended duelyst, i also thought that it couldnt be that worse if songhai has an otk combo, but yeah after i got bursted from an opponent who did nothing the whole game just sitting in a corner, i really think about quitting …
an otk combo which is available at 6 mana is just crazy dumb, i really have no idea who tested this, a monkey on drugs?

the game is a mess for me now, and this experience was so … unfun, that i cant even bother myself anymore to play, vaath is also unplayable now (guess why)

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Dude… vaath is playable, and he has nice burst with thumping wave & even 4mana 20hp OTK if you can set up the board & pull the right cards. I got to S-rank only play Vaath this season.

Back to topic.
I like the new meta, so many deck variations & surprises in every match :

  • Getting swarmed by Vetruvians.
  • Getting Zendo’d then hitting Hamon Bladeseeker. this one is hillarious, always having fun against Zendo Songhai.
  • Fighting against 8 attack Zir’an.
  • Got rekt by ghost azalea Cass.
  • etc.

but I agree songhai mirror meld deck is kinda cancerous. It’s like “you have nothing on board now!” – then boom! boar, double saberspine seal & mirror meld for 16 damage :sob:

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I actually quite strongly dislike the new meta. Not only is it much more heavily infected with all manner of random effects than the pre-Shimzar meta but worst of all, bursting an opponent for 10+ health out of nowhere has become common again.
Whether it’s Mirror - Tusk Boar, Thumping Ground - Elucidator or any of the multitude of Abyssian burst combos, it leads to a meta that is extremely draw dependant and offers limited room for any sort of counterplay.

The fact that the main counterplay that is available comes in the form of an absurdly overpowered legendary (Kron) doesn’t exactly help matters either.

The one good thing that can be said for this meta is that none of the factions seem super weak and they all seem to have at least one strategy viable at the highest levels of play but other than that, no, not a fan.

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For all of Baconator’s perceived dominance, I’ve played the deck all but 3 times in over 50 games in Diamond, colour me unimpressed. Far more Cass in general, which is nice since I like free wins as much as the next guy.

Fair amount of Vetruvian but that’s to be expected and Vanar Walls also seeing a bit of play.

Leonard is still as solid as ever and Lillithe has all but disappeared from the meta.

All in all a great season so far.

Looking at it from the wider angle, I don’t feel how much has changed. Every faction is stronger now and there is more variety between factions. But they all more or less do same things, just in a better and more interesting way.

Not to say that’s a bad thing, I like how the game still feels very familiar despite getting lots of new cards, mechanics and decks.

So yeah, I like it as of now. I’ll wait a bit more till the meta actually settles down before I start complaining.

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My biggest issues were Divine Bond and Shadow Nova, but neither were fixed. Well, they did fix Shadow Nova, but then they broke Cass again by putting in Obliterate. DB needs a rework, not added mana cost. Also, I really hope they never make another battle pet, but I know they will, sadly.

Overall, the meta feels pretty much the same…still a GD mess.

Counterplay doesn’t get it, methinks.

Cassyva isn’t a problem. Pack a few Dispels for Abyssal Juggernaut, and play a deck that is semi-fast.

Anyone complaining about Cassyva just doesn’t understand the matchup.

There are a few decks that are worthy of being complained about right now, I think. Cassyva is not one of those decks.

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This really hurts. :sob:[quote=“oranos, post:2, topic:3465, full:true”]
i dont like that vetruvian has better swarm than abyssian
[/quote]

The game need massive balance change. Vetruvian and Songhay beat everything so fast… And KARA - cheap removal everywhere and fat cheap minions with strong effects… Hhhhhnngg…the agony…

And that’s pretty much the summary of the current meta. But all in all, I’m still having fun even with a paltry collection of Shimzar cards :slight_smile:

Pack a LOT of dispels.

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Wanted to ask here since this isn’t worth creating a new thread, is Hydrax in any way worth keeping?
I wanted to make a gimmicky pure Battle Pet deck and mess around for fun, so I am keeping my Zukongs, don’t know if this minions is not even worth keeping for that.
(The deck would be Vetruvian so I’d still have 1st wish for draw and such)

I wish to quit the game every time I meet Reva in the matchmaking. Cassyva and Kara was ridiculous before the expansion, but i cant even compare them to the new Combohai.

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This is a very difficult answer for me to nail down, personally. Meta is meta; it is what it is. To that point, we can all sit around pondering the best responses to trends and FoTM decks, but the deeper problem is just that - responses; reactive gameplay. “Use more dispels, use more provoke,” and while that may help win a few games in the short term, we are left with fewer chances to expand deck variance.

There are certainly smarter folks than I who have devoted a lot more time to the study of gaming, but I believe a core problem here is proactive vs. reactive, especially in a game where turns are strictly divided between two players. Inherently, this separation is not in and of itself the cause of inequality, but I see disturbing trends in this game. The meta itself is being pushed and influenced more by card/faction design and less by player creativity. Now, that is likely because the game is still relatively young and the card pool is still small. I can certainly understand this not the only reason, but it is a pretty significant one right now. And that’s where we are; right now.

This game has become more fun for some and less fun for many others, depending on whether you want to run the more competitive “proactive” meta netdecks or the less fun “reactive” decks. Of course, that is not necessarily always the case; anti-meta or anti-FoTM decks can have an element of gratification when played against the intended target decks. However good it may make the player feel when winning with reactive decks is not really outweighed by the fact that the contents of said “anti” decks are almost always going to prove ineffective in the larger game. So, we are given the option to build highly tuned faction decks with a few neutrals sprinkled throughout. In this particular season, Songhai seems to have the upper hand in the proactive meta. Every faction is supposed to have an Achilles Heel; that is indeed the whole point in having factions is the first place. Also, every faction is supposed to have a chance to win with a highly tuned deck of its own. This is where RNG factors in with the draw and, of course, RNG effects with certain cards. But when a game is as concentrated on winning and rewarding winners as this one seems to be, the lack in balance becomes glaring. How exactly does a player have fun using all of his or her card pool when it will only net them a 15% win rate when non-standard, non-meta cards are used. What is the point in having a card pool at all? Just give everyone the same deck and pray to the RNGod of the Draw. The current flavor Songhai deck (Double or Triple Baconator…love that name!) is the epitome of proactive. There is very little concern for moves and counter moves when the combo is that lethal and that consistent. And as I stated before, the only answer given by most seems to be “more provoke, more heal, more dispel.” Or, I as I would put it, be more reactive. A deck of only answers provides no questions.

Ugh, how much more can I say about this? Oh, right…back to disturbing trends.

Certain faction synergies are being tuned so hard that it becomes impracticable (near impossible) to use any other cards if you want to win more games than you lose. In the same vein, synergies are being made to quicken the pace of the game, which is one of the main selling points of the game, as we all know. This ain’t family game night with Monopoly or Risk. In the current state of Duelyst, you play meta if you want to win because there aren’t any other game modes that offer any alternative, creative, and diverse playstyles besides Gauntlet, and I would argue that Gauntlet barely qualifies right now because of the small card pool.

I’m sorry about the wall of text, but I’m tired. It’s not much and I guess I could type more - flesh out these thoughts better - but I think I’ve given enough to at least start some other discussions. If you read all of this, you are to be commended.

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LMFAO “who tested rhis a monkey on drugs?” Im dying lol

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Hsuku tested a deck like that in his stream yesterday but tweaked it to have spelljammers instead, because Hydrax didn’t do much.

Fortunately I haven’t run into meldhai… Often.
The problem is that while you can technically play around it, it asks ALOT of you, especially for a 6 mana combo. Maybe if it happened later in the game and there were some kind of on-board setup to interact with, like cass-obliterate, then it’d be fine. But as is its just entirely unreasonable.
I think tusk boar should become a 3 drop so the combo would have to work through non-rush minions/require inner focus.

Outside of that, things have been pretty nice, you can actually fight Cass with lightbenders and other dispels.
Don’t understand the taygete or veteran nerfs but magmar seems to be pulling its weight nonetheless atm.
No real starhorn support, except battlepets, he got battlepets.
Vet isn’t garbage anymore, falcius let’s sajj actually face-trade with big enemy minions, FINALLY. Desperately needed considering she lacks an earth sphere. Pax means vets early game isn’t strictly neutrals, and it can rival cloaker/windblade but in a less agressive fashion. Nimbus seems a bit too strong though Imo.
Still don’t like Kara, but I see less of her, so that’s nice.

Shame swarm abyssian and wallar didn’t get that much support. But overall id say the new meta is better than the old by a decent margin. Except for meldhai. So a few missed opportunity’s are alright, all good things in time or something

Well its not like people have to use 20 reactive cards in their decks. I have around 5 dispels/hard removals in every deck and when used at the right time, aka don’t waste your dispel on pax when you don’t have another for Nimbus, thats more than enough. And with 5 reactive cards you still have 34 card slots in your deck free to be as creative and proactive as you want.

Thing is though, even if there was no need for reactive cards at all, there is a limit to how creative you can be in a competitive environment simply because of the differences in card power. 60-70% of the cards in basicly any card game i know are useless on a competetive level because their effects are to weak or there are strictly better alternatives. Duelyst is no exception.

You quoted my whole post. :slight_smile: Coolz
Like I said, I’m not claiming it is a problem for every one. Just my opinion.