Duelyst Forums

How do you like our new meta?

#5

Positive things:

  • There is a sort of “rock paper scissors” with the lategame decks, with creep beating control Magmar and Control Magmar beating Vet control and that beating creep.
  • Vetruvian is now a real faction again! The cards introduced are all powerful, but not degenerate in that no “unfair” burst combos can be achieved with them.
  • More emphasis on Midgame over Aggro and Control with many decks having versatile win conditions. This promotes interactivity
  • The powerful cards also double as interesting cards, not just stat sticks
  • Alternate win conditions in the form of Shadow creep, Spine Cleaver, Sunforge Lancer, Walls, and Egg-roll Magmar.
  • Less Kara.

Negative things:

  • The gap between players with large collections and those with smaller ones has increased more than expected, with decks like Shadowcreep and any Vetruvian deck relying heavily on legendary cards. While having powerful legendaries is not a bad thing, this bars off a whole playstyle to some newer players.
  • The lack of green dinosaurs makes me quite sad. Magmar got a lot of cool new spells, but their minions are rarely seen in meta decks.
  • Followup: Some deck archetypes got support, but not enough to push them over the edge (Swarm Abyssian, Wall Vanar, Starhorn draw manipulation, Grow Magmar) and others just fell flat (Egg Magmar).
  • Songhai has a new combo with Tusk Boar + Mirror meld. This wouldn’t be much of a problem if not for the fact that, other than these two cards, the other cards in their deck are Insanely powerful, enough to win many games without using combo. Kron, two terrific 3 drops, and Xho make tempo Songhai quite powerful on its own.

Neutral Things:

  • Shadow Nova rework. Not sure what to think of it. Creep cards are fun and this new creep system seems much more flexible than the old one. However too many of my games with/ against this deck are dictated by if I/the opponent draw my Oozs or Abyssal Creepers on the first turn.
  • The emphasis on Midranged Gameplay. On one hand, this leads to more flexible decks and, by extension, more interactive games, but on the other, the same few Neutrals are spotted far too frequently. You know which ones; Kron, Diolatas, Saberspine Tiger (surprisingly), Blistering Skorn, Light Bender, etc.
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#6

The game has never been less fun.

Honestly, this Songhai combo deck is the most oppressive deck this game has ever seen. I would instantly trade this deck in for Celerity Fox or Laser Kitty.

Hooray, Vetruvian is back. wooooo… aaaand they’re unbalanced again. Falcius, Nimbus, Pax, 0 mana dispels? “Don’t worry, we tested this.”

Magmar is as RNG as ever, which is really sad because Vaath has such amazing potential, but they’re delegated to be the RNG class it seems. Side note, patch had next to zero Starhorn support. Might as well have changed his BBS and not even bothered.

Faie didn’t get any help either, she’s been getting the Starhorn treatment lately as well. Thankfully, Kara didn’t get much either, infact the list is largely unchanged. But that in itself is an issue, because it was so insane to begin with, and it still is.

Cassyva is actually insane, and if the game slows down she’ll go back to being the oppressive powerhouse she was before. They lowered Shadow Creep damage, but put its burst on Steroids. Thankfully (Not really) Vet and Songhai are just so fast that there is no reason to play Cassyva. The creep change also makes her pretty bad against Kara, which makes Kara better. Fun. Lilithe might as well not exist.

Argeon is unchanged, as well. He got nothing in the expansion. Sun Wisp isn’t great, Slo is overrated, Afterblaze is alright but there are really only two Zeal minions in the game… Why add Afterblaze and then only give us Solarius as a Zeal minion, ugh. Zir’an actually got the most out of the expansion, because she got great tools that are actually balanced. Too bad she’s totally hosed by all the Dispel going around for Vet.

Anyway, the game needs a massive balance change.

Proceed to throw shade at me

10 Likes
#7

I have to say i like it so far, however i have to add that i didn’t really run into otk songhai so far. If the deck is really as consistent and stupid as the different posts suggest then it needs to be changed asap.

Outside of that though i don’t have anything to complain about. All 6 factions are absolutely viable, the top decks didn’t really change (Kara, Magmar, Spellhai) while weaker archetypes got decent boosts, Midrange Faie got a bunch of decent new toys, Vetruvian powered up just enough to be viable again and Cass is still a strong deck but not as cancerous as before. Even Zir an might be viable now.

The complaints about Nimbus and Kron being to strong i can’t really agree with, i mean yeah they are good but not that hard to deal with. Kron is usually fairly easy to kill with “just” 6 health, dealing with him isn’t that much different from dealing with Shieldmaster only difference is the 2/2 that is just general food 90% of the time.
Nimbus is a great value play and kinda like an obelysk, generates tons of value if he remains on the field but has no immediate impact on the board and if he is not attacked it takes a while to generate a critical amount of obelysks. Not to mention that a dispel renders him useless.

So yeah i am much happier with this meta than with pre shimzar, only problem i see is otk songhai, once thats gone i think we are in a good spot.

5 Likes
#8

Obliterate, obliterate everywhere.

2 Likes
#9

I really like the changes. Pets in general have proven to be well balanced, and add a new form of strategy to the game. Take into account that i was very sceptical in the beginning. Cassy even though still strong, just feels less frustrating to lose to. You know Obliterate is coming, do sth about it.
Shadow Nova was just bullshit, when some games were like: ‘ok, he is going to nova next turn, let me spread out, so that he can either go face or kill my minions’ ‘shadow novas’ ‘i am just gonna develop some new minions’ ‘shadow novas again’ ‘shit, i am off of lethal by 1 with my tiger’ ‘shadow novas a third time for lethal’. Karas BBS in a vacuum is still bullshit, but atm it doesn’t really feel as cancerous, due to the other factions buff. Many things got (semi) viable, like Healyonar, ZooLyonar, maybe even controlhai and what not. Magmar kinda is the unloved child, because Starhorn is still pretty shitty and has no support, and egg and growmar seem to be nonexistent. Lilithe also is still dead, even though i think she might have potential by going a full wraithling route. Vetruvian is so great now. Its fun, balanced and i just love it.

As far as songhai is concerned: Idk about combohai. People seem to be really crazy about this, but out of the 6 or 7 games i played vs. it (mostly with Control sajj) i didn’t lose a single one. Seemed really inconsistent and hard to play to me.

#10

be happy you didnt run into otk songhai, i always defended duelyst, i also thought that it couldnt be that worse if songhai has an otk combo, but yeah after i got bursted from an opponent who did nothing the whole game just sitting in a corner, i really think about quitting …
an otk combo which is available at 6 mana is just crazy dumb, i really have no idea who tested this, a monkey on drugs?

the game is a mess for me now, and this experience was so … unfun, that i cant even bother myself anymore to play, vaath is also unplayable now (guess why)

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#11

Dude… vaath is playable, and he has nice burst with thumping wave & even 4mana 20hp OTK if you can set up the board & pull the right cards. I got to S-rank only play Vaath this season.

Back to topic.
I like the new meta, so many deck variations & surprises in every match :

  • Getting swarmed by Vetruvians.
  • Getting Zendo’d then hitting Hamon Bladeseeker. this one is hillarious, always having fun against Zendo Songhai.
  • Fighting against 8 attack Zir’an.
  • Got rekt by ghost azalea Cass.
  • etc.

but I agree songhai mirror meld deck is kinda cancerous. It’s like “you have nothing on board now!” – then boom! boar, double saberspine seal & mirror meld for 16 damage :sob:

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#12

I actually quite strongly dislike the new meta. Not only is it much more heavily infected with all manner of random effects than the pre-Shimzar meta but worst of all, bursting an opponent for 10+ health out of nowhere has become common again.
Whether it’s Mirror - Tusk Boar, Thumping Ground - Elucidator or any of the multitude of Abyssian burst combos, it leads to a meta that is extremely draw dependant and offers limited room for any sort of counterplay.

The fact that the main counterplay that is available comes in the form of an absurdly overpowered legendary (Kron) doesn’t exactly help matters either.

The one good thing that can be said for this meta is that none of the factions seem super weak and they all seem to have at least one strategy viable at the highest levels of play but other than that, no, not a fan.

5 Likes
#13

For all of Baconator’s perceived dominance, I’ve played the deck all but 3 times in over 50 games in Diamond, colour me unimpressed. Far more Cass in general, which is nice since I like free wins as much as the next guy.

Fair amount of Vetruvian but that’s to be expected and Vanar Walls also seeing a bit of play.

Leonard is still as solid as ever and Lillithe has all but disappeared from the meta.

All in all a great season so far.

#14

Looking at it from the wider angle, I don’t feel how much has changed. Every faction is stronger now and there is more variety between factions. But they all more or less do same things, just in a better and more interesting way.

Not to say that’s a bad thing, I like how the game still feels very familiar despite getting lots of new cards, mechanics and decks.

So yeah, I like it as of now. I’ll wait a bit more till the meta actually settles down before I start complaining.

2 Likes
#15

My biggest issues were Divine Bond and Shadow Nova, but neither were fixed. Well, they did fix Shadow Nova, but then they broke Cass again by putting in Obliterate. DB needs a rework, not added mana cost. Also, I really hope they never make another battle pet, but I know they will, sadly.

Overall, the meta feels pretty much the same…still a GD mess.

#16

Counterplay doesn’t get it, methinks.

#17

Cassyva isn’t a problem. Pack a few Dispels for Abyssal Juggernaut, and play a deck that is semi-fast.

Anyone complaining about Cassyva just doesn’t understand the matchup.

There are a few decks that are worthy of being complained about right now, I think. Cassyva is not one of those decks.

1 Like
#18

This really hurts. :sob:[quote=“oranos, post:2, topic:3465, full:true”]
i dont like that vetruvian has better swarm than abyssian
[/quote]

The game need massive balance change. Vetruvian and Songhay beat everything so fast… And KARA - cheap removal everywhere and fat cheap minions with strong effects… Hhhhhnngg…the agony…

#19

And that’s pretty much the summary of the current meta. But all in all, I’m still having fun even with a paltry collection of Shimzar cards :slight_smile:

#21

Pack a LOT of dispels.

6 Likes
#22

Wanted to ask here since this isn’t worth creating a new thread, is Hydrax in any way worth keeping?
I wanted to make a gimmicky pure Battle Pet deck and mess around for fun, so I am keeping my Zukongs, don’t know if this minions is not even worth keeping for that.
(The deck would be Vetruvian so I’d still have 1st wish for draw and such)

#23

I wish to quit the game every time I meet Reva in the matchmaking. Cassyva and Kara was ridiculous before the expansion, but i cant even compare them to the new Combohai.

2 Likes
#24

This is a very difficult answer for me to nail down, personally. Meta is meta; it is what it is. To that point, we can all sit around pondering the best responses to trends and FoTM decks, but the deeper problem is just that - responses; reactive gameplay. “Use more dispels, use more provoke,” and while that may help win a few games in the short term, we are left with fewer chances to expand deck variance.

There are certainly smarter folks than I who have devoted a lot more time to the study of gaming, but I believe a core problem here is proactive vs. reactive, especially in a game where turns are strictly divided between two players. Inherently, this separation is not in and of itself the cause of inequality, but I see disturbing trends in this game. The meta itself is being pushed and influenced more by card/faction design and less by player creativity. Now, that is likely because the game is still relatively young and the card pool is still small. I can certainly understand this not the only reason, but it is a pretty significant one right now. And that’s where we are; right now.

This game has become more fun for some and less fun for many others, depending on whether you want to run the more competitive “proactive” meta netdecks or the less fun “reactive” decks. Of course, that is not necessarily always the case; anti-meta or anti-FoTM decks can have an element of gratification when played against the intended target decks. However good it may make the player feel when winning with reactive decks is not really outweighed by the fact that the contents of said “anti” decks are almost always going to prove ineffective in the larger game. So, we are given the option to build highly tuned faction decks with a few neutrals sprinkled throughout. In this particular season, Songhai seems to have the upper hand in the proactive meta. Every faction is supposed to have an Achilles Heel; that is indeed the whole point in having factions is the first place. Also, every faction is supposed to have a chance to win with a highly tuned deck of its own. This is where RNG factors in with the draw and, of course, RNG effects with certain cards. But when a game is as concentrated on winning and rewarding winners as this one seems to be, the lack in balance becomes glaring. How exactly does a player have fun using all of his or her card pool when it will only net them a 15% win rate when non-standard, non-meta cards are used. What is the point in having a card pool at all? Just give everyone the same deck and pray to the RNGod of the Draw. The current flavor Songhai deck (Double or Triple Baconator…love that name!) is the epitome of proactive. There is very little concern for moves and counter moves when the combo is that lethal and that consistent. And as I stated before, the only answer given by most seems to be “more provoke, more heal, more dispel.” Or, I as I would put it, be more reactive. A deck of only answers provides no questions.

Ugh, how much more can I say about this? Oh, right…back to disturbing trends.

Certain faction synergies are being tuned so hard that it becomes impracticable (near impossible) to use any other cards if you want to win more games than you lose. In the same vein, synergies are being made to quicken the pace of the game, which is one of the main selling points of the game, as we all know. This ain’t family game night with Monopoly or Risk. In the current state of Duelyst, you play meta if you want to win because there aren’t any other game modes that offer any alternative, creative, and diverse playstyles besides Gauntlet, and I would argue that Gauntlet barely qualifies right now because of the small card pool.

I’m sorry about the wall of text, but I’m tired. It’s not much and I guess I could type more - flesh out these thoughts better - but I think I’ve given enough to at least start some other discussions. If you read all of this, you are to be commended.

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#25

LMFAO “who tested rhis a monkey on drugs?” Im dying lol

1 Like