How do you like our new meta?


#1

well shim zar hit and i finally logged into the forums to talk about the meta…

is it just me or is songhai more cancerous then ever before?

good thing is vetruvian is a real faction again (?)

overall i liked the game more before the expansion and i disliked kara and cassyva

edit: i was really salty when i made this thread
still enjoy the game though^


#2

i dont like that vetruvian has better swarm than abyssian


#3

This expansion shook things up, but in a weird way.

Songahi got a new OTK combo in the baconrush.
Vetruvian got ‘fixed’ by getting ridiculously overpowered cards.
Zendo, again for Songhai, is a flat out horrible design.
Cass’s Shadow Nova kill was removed, only to be replaced by Obliterate.
And Kara was completely unchanged.

We got a few interesting things out of it, but I feel we got hit with more bad than good.


#4

I love the new meta personally. Ive only been playing for about 8 weeks, so by no means a veteran player, but I have really been enjoying the new changes.

  1. Vetruvian is heaps fun to play. I only have 2 legendaries in my deck (1 nimbus 1 amy) and it’s been great fun.
  2. The new shadow nova reworks are absolutely terrifying, and far more fun to play against. I love the new shadow creep reworks and much prefer losing to the new cass than the old one. Or compared to losing to Kara…
  3. I havent run into Kara as much (in silver tier at least). This may be the fact that although Kara was mostly unchanged, many other factions got heaps of new shiny toys to play with so everyone’s currently testing them out. I’m getting an awesome variety in generals now when I queue instead of 90% of games being vs Cass or Kara.
  4. I want to run a cool nimble songhai but just dont have the cards for them (still a new player so only have the good stuff for 4 of the races) but exciting project for the future.

I do hear of the Meldhai OTK, but thankfully havent seen it in silver league. If i ever get good enough to get into a reputable skill bracket I’m sure I’ll work out where it sits on an overpowered scale of 1 to Kara.

Psyrus


#5

Positive things:

  • There is a sort of “rock paper scissors” with the lategame decks, with creep beating control Magmar and Control Magmar beating Vet control and that beating creep.
  • Vetruvian is now a real faction again! The cards introduced are all powerful, but not degenerate in that no “unfair” burst combos can be achieved with them.
  • More emphasis on Midgame over Aggro and Control with many decks having versatile win conditions. This promotes interactivity
  • The powerful cards also double as interesting cards, not just stat sticks
  • Alternate win conditions in the form of Shadow creep, Spine Cleaver, Sunforge Lancer, Walls, and Egg-roll Magmar.
  • Less Kara.

Negative things:

  • The gap between players with large collections and those with smaller ones has increased more than expected, with decks like Shadowcreep and any Vetruvian deck relying heavily on legendary cards. While having powerful legendaries is not a bad thing, this bars off a whole playstyle to some newer players.
  • The lack of green dinosaurs makes me quite sad. Magmar got a lot of cool new spells, but their minions are rarely seen in meta decks.
  • Followup: Some deck archetypes got support, but not enough to push them over the edge (Swarm Abyssian, Wall Vanar, Starhorn draw manipulation, Grow Magmar) and others just fell flat (Egg Magmar).
  • Songhai has a new combo with Tusk Boar + Mirror meld. This wouldn’t be much of a problem if not for the fact that, other than these two cards, the other cards in their deck are Insanely powerful, enough to win many games without using combo. Kron, two terrific 3 drops, and Xho make tempo Songhai quite powerful on its own.

Neutral Things:

  • Shadow Nova rework. Not sure what to think of it. Creep cards are fun and this new creep system seems much more flexible than the old one. However too many of my games with/ against this deck are dictated by if I/the opponent draw my Oozs or Abyssal Creepers on the first turn.
  • The emphasis on Midranged Gameplay. On one hand, this leads to more flexible decks and, by extension, more interactive games, but on the other, the same few Neutrals are spotted far too frequently. You know which ones; Kron, Diolatas, Saberspine Tiger (surprisingly), Blistering Skorn, Light Bender, etc.

#6

The game has never been less fun.

Honestly, this Songhai combo deck is the most oppressive deck this game has ever seen. I would instantly trade this deck in for Celerity Fox or Laser Kitty.

Hooray, Vetruvian is back. wooooo… aaaand they’re unbalanced again. Falcius, Nimbus, Pax, 0 mana dispels? “Don’t worry, we tested this.”

Magmar is as RNG as ever, which is really sad because Vaath has such amazing potential, but they’re delegated to be the RNG class it seems. Side note, patch had next to zero Starhorn support. Might as well have changed his BBS and not even bothered.

Faie didn’t get any help either, she’s been getting the Starhorn treatment lately as well. Thankfully, Kara didn’t get much either, infact the list is largely unchanged. But that in itself is an issue, because it was so insane to begin with, and it still is.

Cassyva is actually insane, and if the game slows down she’ll go back to being the oppressive powerhouse she was before. They lowered Shadow Creep damage, but put its burst on Steroids. Thankfully (Not really) Vet and Songhai are just so fast that there is no reason to play Cassyva. The creep change also makes her pretty bad against Kara, which makes Kara better. Fun. Lilithe might as well not exist.

Argeon is unchanged, as well. He got nothing in the expansion. Sun Wisp isn’t great, Slo is overrated, Afterblaze is alright but there are really only two Zeal minions in the game… Why add Afterblaze and then only give us Solarius as a Zeal minion, ugh. Zir’an actually got the most out of the expansion, because she got great tools that are actually balanced. Too bad she’s totally hosed by all the Dispel going around for Vet.

Anyway, the game needs a massive balance change.

Proceed to throw shade at me


#7

I have to say i like it so far, however i have to add that i didn’t really run into otk songhai so far. If the deck is really as consistent and stupid as the different posts suggest then it needs to be changed asap.

Outside of that though i don’t have anything to complain about. All 6 factions are absolutely viable, the top decks didn’t really change (Kara, Magmar, Spellhai) while weaker archetypes got decent boosts, Midrange Faie got a bunch of decent new toys, Vetruvian powered up just enough to be viable again and Cass is still a strong deck but not as cancerous as before. Even Zir an might be viable now.

The complaints about Nimbus and Kron being to strong i can’t really agree with, i mean yeah they are good but not that hard to deal with. Kron is usually fairly easy to kill with “just” 6 health, dealing with him isn’t that much different from dealing with Shieldmaster only difference is the 2/2 that is just general food 90% of the time.
Nimbus is a great value play and kinda like an obelysk, generates tons of value if he remains on the field but has no immediate impact on the board and if he is not attacked it takes a while to generate a critical amount of obelysks. Not to mention that a dispel renders him useless.

So yeah i am much happier with this meta than with pre shimzar, only problem i see is otk songhai, once thats gone i think we are in a good spot.


#8

Obliterate, obliterate everywhere.


#9

I really like the changes. Pets in general have proven to be well balanced, and add a new form of strategy to the game. Take into account that i was very sceptical in the beginning. Cassy even though still strong, just feels less frustrating to lose to. You know Obliterate is coming, do sth about it.
Shadow Nova was just bullshit, when some games were like: ‘ok, he is going to nova next turn, let me spread out, so that he can either go face or kill my minions’ ‘shadow novas’ ‘i am just gonna develop some new minions’ ‘shadow novas again’ ‘shit, i am off of lethal by 1 with my tiger’ ‘shadow novas a third time for lethal’. Karas BBS in a vacuum is still bullshit, but atm it doesn’t really feel as cancerous, due to the other factions buff. Many things got (semi) viable, like Healyonar, ZooLyonar, maybe even controlhai and what not. Magmar kinda is the unloved child, because Starhorn is still pretty shitty and has no support, and egg and growmar seem to be nonexistent. Lilithe also is still dead, even though i think she might have potential by going a full wraithling route. Vetruvian is so great now. Its fun, balanced and i just love it.

As far as songhai is concerned: Idk about combohai. People seem to be really crazy about this, but out of the 6 or 7 games i played vs. it (mostly with Control sajj) i didn’t lose a single one. Seemed really inconsistent and hard to play to me.


#10

be happy you didnt run into otk songhai, i always defended duelyst, i also thought that it couldnt be that worse if songhai has an otk combo, but yeah after i got bursted from an opponent who did nothing the whole game just sitting in a corner, i really think about quitting …
an otk combo which is available at 6 mana is just crazy dumb, i really have no idea who tested this, a monkey on drugs?

the game is a mess for me now, and this experience was so … unfun, that i cant even bother myself anymore to play, vaath is also unplayable now (guess why)


#11

Dude… vaath is playable, and he has nice burst with thumping wave & even 4mana 20hp OTK if you can set up the board & pull the right cards. I got to S-rank only play Vaath this season.

Back to topic.
I like the new meta, so many deck variations & surprises in every match :

  • Getting swarmed by Vetruvians.
  • Getting Zendo’d then hitting Hamon Bladeseeker. this one is hillarious, always having fun against Zendo Songhai.
  • Fighting against 8 attack Zir’an.
  • Got rekt by ghost azalea Cass.
  • etc.

but I agree songhai mirror meld deck is kinda cancerous. It’s like “you have nothing on board now!” – then boom! boar, double saberspine seal & mirror meld for 16 damage :sob:


#12

I actually quite strongly dislike the new meta. Not only is it much more heavily infected with all manner of random effects than the pre-Shimzar meta but worst of all, bursting an opponent for 10+ health out of nowhere has become common again.
Whether it’s Mirror - Tusk Boar, Thumping Ground - Elucidator or any of the multitude of Abyssian burst combos, it leads to a meta that is extremely draw dependant and offers limited room for any sort of counterplay.

The fact that the main counterplay that is available comes in the form of an absurdly overpowered legendary (Kron) doesn’t exactly help matters either.

The one good thing that can be said for this meta is that none of the factions seem super weak and they all seem to have at least one strategy viable at the highest levels of play but other than that, no, not a fan.


#13

For all of Baconator’s perceived dominance, I’ve played the deck all but 3 times in over 50 games in Diamond, colour me unimpressed. Far more Cass in general, which is nice since I like free wins as much as the next guy.

Fair amount of Vetruvian but that’s to be expected and Vanar Walls also seeing a bit of play.

Leonard is still as solid as ever and Lillithe has all but disappeared from the meta.

All in all a great season so far.


#14

Looking at it from the wider angle, I don’t feel how much has changed. Every faction is stronger now and there is more variety between factions. But they all more or less do same things, just in a better and more interesting way.

Not to say that’s a bad thing, I like how the game still feels very familiar despite getting lots of new cards, mechanics and decks.

So yeah, I like it as of now. I’ll wait a bit more till the meta actually settles down before I start complaining.


#15

My biggest issues were Divine Bond and Shadow Nova, but neither were fixed. Well, they did fix Shadow Nova, but then they broke Cass again by putting in Obliterate. DB needs a rework, not added mana cost. Also, I really hope they never make another battle pet, but I know they will, sadly.

Overall, the meta feels pretty much the same…still a GD mess.


#16

Counterplay doesn’t get it, methinks.


#17

Cassyva isn’t a problem. Pack a few Dispels for Abyssal Juggernaut, and play a deck that is semi-fast.

Anyone complaining about Cassyva just doesn’t understand the matchup.

There are a few decks that are worthy of being complained about right now, I think. Cassyva is not one of those decks.


#18

This really hurts. :sob:[quote=“oranos, post:2, topic:3465, full:true”]
i dont like that vetruvian has better swarm than abyssian
[/quote]

The game need massive balance change. Vetruvian and Songhay beat everything so fast… And KARA - cheap removal everywhere and fat cheap minions with strong effects… Hhhhhnngg…the agony…


#19

And that’s pretty much the summary of the current meta. But all in all, I’m still having fun even with a paltry collection of Shimzar cards :slight_smile:


#21

Pack a LOT of dispels.