How could Excelsious be better?

[gabriek]

I’ll start this thread by acknowledging the fact that not all the expansion cards are revealed, and we have no idea what the meta will be like after it drops. These are mostly my opinions and the opinions of others in these forums which are based on the current meta

I think most would agree that Embla will be much more viable than Excelsious in the current meta as it is, because Embla has an immediate board effect and isn’t weak to dispel/single target removal like Excelsious, so im wondering what kind of adjustments could be made to Excelsious to make it less of gamble.

The first thing that came to mind was to add a simple OG effect onto his current effect, like adding Opening gambit:heal your general for 10 this way if Excelsious gets removed or dispelled, at the very least you have the 10 extra health (and if it’s dispelled a 6/6 body) also, the heal would prevent your opponents from just ignoring Excelsious and bursting you down with out of hand damage. In my opinion this would be a reasonable effect for an 8 mana legendary, but i’d like to know what you guys think. What would you see changed with Excelsious or even if you like him just the way he is.

[excogitator]

I would just change Excelious altogether so that it does something else based on the number of times you healed:

8 mana
6/6
provoke, forcefield
Opening gambit: deal damage equal to the number of times you healed to ALL minions

This makes it a monstrous board clear that leaves behind a sticky provoke if you heal enough times. With only three instances of heals, this would be a Frostburn bundled with a huge forcefield provoke. With any more, it can swing the game.

[ancientmage]

I’ve got an idea

8 mana (6/6)
Provoke
Opening Gambit: Restore health equal to the total amount restored this game.

[johnbob78]

Simple question, Simple answer.

1 mana 1/2 Opening Gambit: Win the Game.

[mmf]

In all honesty I think Excelsious is fine as is. The point being that you would only summon him late game where you had the opponent burn most, if not all, of their dispel or instant minion clear. If we did try to make him better suited for the current meta then we would have to go with one of the suggestions that @excogitator or @ancientmage presented (yours seems too OP especially if you add it onto the already terrifying minions abilities). You would have to pretty much create an entirely new card or simply nerf it to all hell in order to create an opening gambit that would only add more to the bursty nature of Duelyst, something of which Duelyst already has more than enough of. Not all high cost cards have to have an immediate effect to be viable. Are provoke AND celerity not good enough for you?

[raqyee]

It doesn’t have to be better. It’s a late game card meant to be played in a control deck full of threats and healing which you slam on the board after the enemy has ran out of removal upon which you proceed to win the game regardless of their health total.

Making the card better by implementing some sort of fair instant effect would just make the card go against it’s very idea and it wouldn’t be fun at all.

[michelangelo]

You get an Obliterate.
You get an Obliterate.
Everyone gets an Obliterate.

[kirabi]

People do realise you can play more than one,yes it is super greedy but you can drop one in person face more than once.If they have enough removal still at point more power to them.

I play on occasion a deck with Quartermaster Gajj and as long I make the opponent use expensive removal on it then it is okay play if they it with aspect of the fox or phoenix fire then I wasted my time but the point of deck is to make removal nonexistent for when my Kyhmera and Elder are on the board.And if you can’t answer Elder game is over

Heal Ziran now has purpose and builds are more clear to build.You are building deck which goal is to survive to turn 8 while making the person use as much removal as possible.You have 4 legit win conditions

1.Attrition Lucent Beam
2.Attrition Sunforge Lancer+ general beatdown
3.Excelsious out of nowhere
4.Divine bond on something big

Excelsioius is the first revealed minion for Lyonar we don’t know what additional tools will become available.Sunbreaker is probably healbase minion give that every minion with Sun in the name like Sunriser,Sunforge lancer, Suntide maiden has heal syngery.

How Could Excelsious be better? A lot things but before that question needs to be answered another question needs to be asked does Excelsious need to be better? Does Rise of the bloodborn gave Heal lyonar enough tools.Sunbreaker could be a 6 mana 6/6 if something is heal this turn this minion has rush.They could make minion that gives Aegis barrier to every minion summoned on the board.Just saying see the whole picture first

[sandclock]

You know, a minion that gives aegis barrier effect to every minion that is healed, sounds interesting.

[supernesic]

Tbh I’d rather not have late game cards that have fast yet powerful effects. Revenant and Makantor are two cards that come to mind which are very frustrating as you can’t play around either and you kind of just have to accept the fact that you are going to take a lot of damage from them. I like having early game minions with fast effects as you know that you are taking a risk as you are going to use up more cards.

Similarly late game healing even though it doesn’t really exist would probably be equally scary. Could you imagine if there was a card that was of kelaino’s power level at 6 mana? For it to have a similar power level at 6 it would probably instead of healing 3 a turn it would heal 5-6

IMO healing effects and rush effects shouldn’t be put on highly costed cards. And tbh right now lyonar and abyss, who are very popular run no removal except for repulsor/lure which is far less effective against a minion with celerity.

[paralykeet]

Honestly, this sentiment is sortof backwards from my point of view. I’d love to have a bursty heal fatty, but Excelsious is an exceptional design, worthy of joining Elyx, Z’ir and Solarius. I honestly think it’s more of a problem that fatties have to perform at a level like Spectral Revenant to see play at all (and Revenant is part of that problem.) Simply put, many of the early designs put too much into spells with legs being the primary currency of Duelyst- which make spells as a card type worse, and the game generally push too hard for aggression.

The game has plenty of playable fatties, but we haven’t hit a point where it makes sense to play these trickier cards, because it’s just easier to slam Rush minions with buffs for the same mana costs, and tech out the opponent with Shrouds. If the community were larger, we’d probably find a way to make it work, but the game thus far has had a pretty severe starvation of good reactive tools, and is bloated with cheesy ways to avoid mutual interaction between players.

[d0k]

8 mana
6/6
Heal your general for the same amount of damage that your general deals.
Tech card for Lyonar decks with Artifacts and Sunforge Heal decks. Plop it down in the corner and get some additional sustain.

[mrmana3]

High-cost cards are supposed to be risky. If they weren’t, then every game would be determined by who gets out their late-game threats first.
Besides, there’s already a way to make the card a safer play. Unlike other factions, Lyonar has access to “Aegis Barrier”. Sure, it costs 1 more mana, as well as 1 more card, but I’m confident that healing Lyonar decks can survive long enough to get to the 9-mana turns and pull off that combo. With Aegis Barrier, all spells (save Chromatic Cold) would be useless against this monster. Only dispel can answer it, which can feel awkward given the minion’s natural size. Leaving a 6/6 on the board is still pretty decent if it’s dispelled, and that’s IF they can answer it. If they can’t, you probably win next turn.
The only way the minion could be any better is either to give it a built-in Aegis Barrier effect, and perhaps an effect that reads: “If dispelled or attacked, win the game.” XD

[thedrowningsailor]

I really think we need to play Excelsious first before talking about changes to the card. It seems silly to ask how it could be “better” when we don’t even know how good it is going to be in the adjusted meta, since nothing has been released yet!

[gabriek]

Please read the start of my post

[thematsjo]

Excelsious
Legendary Lyonar Minion
8 Mana / * Attack / * Health
Celerity, Frenzy, Provoke. Opening Gambit: This minion gains base Attack and Health equal to the amount of times something was healed during your turns this game.

This way Excelsious demands some serious setup to win you the game, isn’t as vulnerable to dispel and continues to fit its design as a big dumb late game beat stick. We could tweak its base stats to give it more Health than Attack to immunize against Sunset Paragon somewhat, but I haven’t given this enough thought to be very insistent on any particular detail.

I still think it’s the rest of the game that’s the problem and not Excelsious’ actual design, but this is a design I suspect could work out.

[karsticles]

I am fine with him as-is, but I wish he healed a character for some amount (5?) when played so that instagibs don’t make him a massive value loss.

[bigfootmydog]

It seems pretty clear to me where his place is. Excelsious is really only intended to be played in lategame low card draw scenarios where the odds of your opponent having and answer for him are low do to their lack of removal in hand.