Im sorry if this sounds like a rant (it kinda is), but what I really want to do is to just highlight a very apparent and GLARING problem. Vets atm have no ranged removals, as in they are either inefficient or impractical.
Let’s say in a scenario where my opponent summoned a threat in the back lines. And I have a Rasha’s curse, I need additional buffs from anything else to kill anything that’s 3 health and above :bloodmoon, kelaino, fourwinds etc. And also if he did summoned something in the back and but not near themselves, it basically renders the card useless.
What about star’s fury? Well, first off, it has the same problem with rasha, it deals only 2 damage, requires opponent’s bad positioning + additional body nearby the threat hiding in the back lines. And it’s extremely costly, it costs 5 to remove anything in the rear, most of them cost less than 5 : kelaino, four winds, blood moon, furosa, sunforge lancer and the list goes on… ranged threats with or without buffs too).
We have wildfire ankh, but the thing about artifacts is that they are slow, in this fast-paced meta, playing an artifact is already a gamble, more so with one that does not grant attack bonus and needs additional buffs to kill anything more than 2 health. I need falcius for 4 health units, and falcius +bbs for more, or a more costly artifact, 5 mana at least to get the job down. While giving up developing your board, requires positioning and multiple cards + conditions for that to even happen.
Silhoutte tracers dont help much too because the body is not exactly the best, it’s a 2-6 but requires additional hit from anything else to even trade in. And it’s a 4 drop, meaning combo-ing it with falcius + ankh + bbs is impractical, you need 3 cards, bbs off cool down and 3+1+4 = 8 mana (with ankh - 3 mana, pre-equipped) to pull it off, if not, you cant even cast everything on the same turn. And crowding up your 4 drop slots is not the best thing to do, especially a utility 4 drop when 4 drops are important because they decide your transition to midgame, usually 4 drops here have very powerful effects to swing games (like taygete) or just strong in general (sunsteel, abyssal juggernaut, dioltas etc).
Starfire scarab? 5 mana, requires 1 more turn to just let the effect kick in. Also, vulnerable to global removals, dispels.
Pyromancer. Weak 2-1, dies to ping or just any form of damage, requires buff to kill larger threats. In addition, it doesnt help contest the mana tiles in the early turns where it is very important.
Saberspine Tigers? The best candidate atm, but still requires buff to kill anything that has 3 health and above. 2 card combo (with first or second wish etc) and requires at least 3 mana.
Autarch’s gifts is even slower, a 6 mana gamble for the blast artifact. Requires bbs if threat has 4 health above and you got staff of ykir + ankh.
Astral phasing. 3 mana and requires a minion to stick, which si hard enough already and doesnt grant attack bonus, only 5 health and flying, which isnt exactly a removal, and im not even sure is it a defensive card because it requires the minion to fly to something’s face and hit in point blank range, which is susceptible to getting killed off afterwards.
10.Rae was another option people opted for right after the siphon nerf. But Rae is not even a removal, it’s effect is not controllable and is a negligible, 1-1 battle pet.
- Sunset paragon, dancing blades, repulsor beast, post-nerf sipohn, shroud, dominate will, entropic decay and lightbender suffers the same problem , which is what I am trying to highlight here, reach. And rainbow pony is just a pseudo- removal, requires things to have equal or higher attack than it’s health, which is not the case for kelaino.
Below are some examples of what I mean, it really is kind of auto concede vs Bloodmoon.
In this screenshot, I equipped Autarch’s gifts with my experimental deck to gamble for a blast artifact. Noticed how one charge was used? I had to move all the way to the left (opponent’s starting field to remove a grovelion. And then he summons a bloodmoon all the way right. I had to sacrifice some of my life total to try to move there while getting punched with a forcefield lilthe, and attempt to chain summon dispel or remove it. While she jsut disengages and summon another threat in the back line. Yeah, fun and interactive.
Here, another one. Just used up one tiger for the first bloodmoon and kept blades in my hand, thinking I could remove a second one if she did had it. Turns out she did and just sealed off my path completely, nothing I could’ve done for me to reach it.
I saved up a shroud and tiger just for something like a bloodmoon, she dropped it and i was happy cause I could remove it, but then I noticed she had enough wraithlings to get killed off to make an impenetrable wall. So my tiger was needless to say, useless in this case. It basically is just answer or die, and Im pretty sure everyone has experienced situations like this (albeit not so extreme) where you cant answer something for a turn or more, and you just lsot because of it. Doesnt matter how you positioned or traded or played the cards, you just didnt draw the exact answers for it. For vets vs bloodmoon or anything out of reach atm, it really is kind of auto-concede.
For other factions, you can maybe stall out to get your removals or inevitable win con. Magmars with their removals or their rush minions. Lyonar has dispel or tiger + roar for argeon. Maybe even dropping an ironcliffe and divine bond next turn. Vanars has more than enough answers. Songhai can onyx bear seal, inner focus something, killing edge it from range or just double phoenix fire. Abyssians have ritual banishing, punish, lure and the best late game (Obliterate, Spectral Revenant, Soul Grimwar etc). Vets literally have nothing that does the job cleanly. They cant even stall out for their nonexistent inevitable win con, they rely on huge gigantic minions, the value game and just overwhelming the board to win. Also, I talk mainly from Sajj’s perspective, board presence is not too huge a deal for Dervish Vets, but all the aforementioned problems still exists,
I was obviously upset after the Siphon nerf and tried to make vet work but it didnt. Raged and switched to Cassy cause I am a fan of control play styles. And I was patiently waiting for the devs to compensate for the uncalled nerf that boggled everyone’s mind. Thinking that the expansion (rise of the bloodborn) had something for Vets, a much more flavorful way of dealing with back line threats. But instead, we get Grandmaster nosh-Rak, amazing card but tbh, it does seem a bit power-creeped, like falcius and pax. It just seems like a desperate attempt to make the faction viable by printing power creeped cards after all the nerfs. And the funny part is every faction has some form of global removal but Vets, isnt it a bit unfair even if it’s for the flavor of the faction’s sake? Shouldnt everything else be adjusted as well?
Vets kind lost pretty much their identity, portal guardian is unplayable, killing part of the initial swarm decks that in beta (iirc)? Siphon nerf killed the control aspect of Vetruvians. Blast is just downright impractical and kind of unplayable atm. Majority of the spells are useless and very conditional.
Another part that boggles me is units that ignore positioning; from ranged units to flying, Kelainos, fourwinds, bloodmoons, blast, rush or rush + frenzy (yes, Jesus Makantor or even holy immo to some extent), and spells even. The cards itself are not my point here (those are for some other threads), point is why have things that ignore positioning and range when you deliberately designed a card game that utilizes the board??
I hope this thread doesnt sound like a rant although I was a bit frustrated when typing it, I didnt exactly gave any suggestions here because I did gave some, and many did gave very interesting thoughts on why things are as they are, or how to make them better.
I was told to be patient and I did, right after the siphon nerf, an uncalled nerf out of nowhere got us wondering that there might be some new tools for vets in the upcoming expansion that called for this nerf. So I got my hopes up and waited for it. Well now the whole thing is out and tbh I wasnt exactly surprised that there wasnt any. And the next balance patch is in mid January and I highly doubt that Siphon will get reworded or there will be a huge readjustment for anything. I guess vets are in the gutter now, like they were, again for the third or fourth time? I lost count.
Like I said, I am just kind of eager to play Sajj again (because I am not a fan Zirix’s swarm play style) without actually being frustrated. I guess I just have to swallow the fact that I am gonna get frsutrated when i do feel like playing her or just play some other faction instead.