I’d maybe run a single (or two copies) in case they do try to shut down your midgame to be able to call your bluff
Do you ever run into a scenario where they don’t have removal at 9 mana? Yes, you do. Maybe not so often, but there will be games where they run out or at least run out of any they had in their hand so they don’t have any at the time, and this will be a new tool for ziran to threaten the game immediately when that happens.
Your concern is valid, there are many instances where it will be countered. But don’t lose hope! I think you are being a tad pessimistic with regards to its impact. Definitely try it first before writing it off.
Like I said earlier, the same thought process could be said for Zir, yet I can remember many games I’ve had where Zir came through big, and a few I’ve seen in some tournaments as well.
I’ve been playing the deck for a bit, played about 20 games, and won every game, other than those against Vaath, of which I’ve lost each and every one, played about 3/4, any suggestions?
It’s a much slower variant, meant to burn out the opponent until they run out of threats, at which point you kill them with high burst potential.
Yeah, sure I do, but I try to look at these things in terms of averages. Over the course of 100 matches, how often am I going to benefit from playing Excelsious? Sure, it’s going to be awesome at least some of the time and those moments will feel great, but is that representative for its performance as a whole? And if it isn’t, wouldn’t my deck be better sticking with more reliably good cards, or those that counter specific key threats? Same goes for Z’Ir. Silverguard Knight is worth the investment in almost every. single. match. and even when it gets dispelled or removed the smaller investment makes that less of a disaster in most cases. I guess I’m not disagreeing with you, just thought I’d expand on my way of thinking.
Damn that Vaath, I can’t win for shit against him as well. This thread isn’t meant for deck building, but if/when you’re happy with it I can add it to the community lists; please add a name and the highest rank you reached using it if/when you do.
Um, sure, ign is the same, and atm I’m rank 14, but it’s only the beginning of the month.
Though, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, you never answered my question.
EDIT: make that 13
IGN? I’m not familiar with this abbreviation. I can amend the highest rank later if you shoot me a quick pm or something so that’s not a problem :).
I didn’t answer your question on purpose, to quote the OP:
I’d be glad to provide feedback on your deck, but in a dedicated thread please.
In game name, also, fair enough, I think I can be excused for not reading the entire essay at the top.
Highest rank: 7
Based off an original deck from back in the beta days titled Firestorm. I am not the originator of the deck, and I unfortunately can not find the players name to give propper credit. Anyways here is my take on it post Shimzar.
I think it has the chops to make it into diamond as is. Currently my only troubling opponent is Cass spec Abyss decks. I have a few refinements in mind.
Essential mindset for the deck is to play like you are Reva. There is enough heal in the deck to weather more aggressive decks. You also have the ability recycle your more needed spells in a given match.
Silhouette Tracer and Elyx allow you to re-position.
Some things to note about this Deck. Twilight Sorcerer use to cost 4, for the same body and abilities you get at 5 now. Emerald Rejuvenater use to heal ONLY your general for 4 HP. The repulsor beasts act as soft removal, Zir’an did not exist in game yet, and drawing two cards at the end of your turn was still a thing.I think I might be off by a card, but the gist of the original Firestorm deck is there. I wish I could remember the players name, it is Eladdrin or something like that. Anyways enough of my prattling.[/details]
Edits: Spelling, and updating with original Firestorm Deck.
##Zir’An, Lawgiver II
[details=Pre-RotB, see below for new incarnation]
This is the second iteration of the Lawgiver deck that takes the change to Blistering Skorn, the introduction of Azure Herald and developments in the meta into account. The changes aren’t drastic overall, but they do have a significant impact on how the deck plays. Day Watcher is removed for Sworn Avenger because it represents another threat and the deck was overstuffed with sources of healing. We’ve dropped a Circle for a Martyrdom, but beyond that the card selection hasn’t changed. The curve isn’t as pretty anymore but that doesn’t really seem to matter here. The deck has taken a minor turn towards control with a renewed emphasis on the late game through Martyrdom and Sterope. There are just so many threats that need hard removal out there now that the change makes sense, and the deck is still pretty good against other non-Vaath late game matchups. When Excelsious comes out I’ll likely try it out as a one-of.
I haven’t laddered seriously with the deck yet because I’m just trying a bunch of different things out right now. I expect this version will also reach Diamond but I’ll report back on that.
The Lawgiver–aka ‘Zir’An Smash!’–deck uses Zir’An Sunforge as its pivot. It’s a Healyonar deck that fully commits to the theme and uses Zir’An as its main source of damage and healing target. The idea is to use Sunforge Lancer to beef her up and use most of the deck’s healing effects on Zir’An herself. You want to keep her close to the action to deal damage and take it which allows you to body block for your key Purity minions and almost always have a good healing target.
A lot of common decks have trouble dealing enough damage to whittle Zir’An down because many don’t pack nearly enough gas to plow through a possible 25 (base Health) + 6 (Fiz) + 6 (Mystic) + ? (Day Watcher) + 15 (Elixir) + ? (Martyrdom on your own minion) + 10 (Circle) = 47 and likely more Health! This means you can take the punishment until you reach the 5-6 mana you need to start doing all the crazy stuff. Be ready to salt your noodles with your opponent’s tears as they helplessly watch you recover Health from <10 to >20 in a few turns .
Blistering Skorn and Sunriser deliver crowd control, Sun Bloom dispels where needed, Sterope and Ruby Rifter maintain a decent hand size. I run 3-ofs as much as possible to maintain the consistency a combo deck like this really demands. PS: Dat mana curve doe.
This is a relatively fast and aggressive Healyonar deck that tends to generate value from its control tools. Skorn, Sterope and Sunriser allow you to effectively control the board and the entire deck is geared towards being strong in the mid-game. This deck has a few potential win conditions including a buffed Zir’An and Sunriser, but the main two closers tend to be Lucent Beam and a big late-game Ruby Rifter. This deck regularly has the ability to build up a board presence of 3-4 minions, allowing you to semi-swarm some opponents (made insane through Day Watcher), but you’re still most likely to close things out with a big swing from a Rifter or the occasional giant Lightchaser.[/details]
The deck looks really cool, but I can’t for the life of me figure out how it’s supposed to work! Could you maybe add a paragraph explaining how you’re supposed to use Alcuin Loremaster, Twilight Sorcerer, Silhouette Tracer and Elyx? Maybe you can touch on how the Firestorm deck was supposed to work?
Highest Rank: 10
This deck is. . .stupid, but I love it, and it’s incredibly fun to play with. I would never lie and say I have a consistent winrate with this deck, and some card choices are obviously inefficient, but I’m just a diehard control player no matter what cardgame I’m playing. Of course there are still the classic Healyonar combos, but it’s more about controlling the game state.
Certainly, I will do my best. Admittedly It took me awhile to get the hang of it myself. I also think the original deck was meant as a meme, but I digress. For those curious what the original deck is I will edit my original post and add it there.
The role of the Alcuin loremaster and Twilight sorcerer is to resupply you with key spells, YOUR spells specifically. Yes Alcuin loremaster can be used to steal your opponents spells, much to their chagrin, but you usually are saving them to combo with a Lyonar spell you want another copy of. The Twilight sorcerer is used in a similar fashion to Keeper of the Value err I mean Vale…
Much the same as you minimizing which minions you summon to ensure you get “Valeable” minions back from Keeper, you do the same with your spell pool. Twilight Sorcerer will only target spells that you have cast, and it gives you a decent body on the board that trades well, and can be healed.
As for Elyx, and Silhouette Tracer these two cards give you added mobility for closing or running away. Your opponent walls themselves in to protect themselves from being bashed in the face by your shiny Regalia, but they leave their back open… Snickztttttt (The sound I imagine it would feel like if really under this cards effect)- Silhouette Tracer. I was over here, but now I am tapping you on the shoulder to say “Oh Hai”. Alternatively your opponent thinks they have you pinned down. Snickztttttt - Silhouette Tracer. Ha Ha and good bye! Silhouette Tracer also leaves an alright body behind that can at least soak damage.
Ahem …moving on.
Elyx is meant to be an answer or “get the snot beat out of you” kind of card. It is a big body that when dispelled still can cause some hurt. If you get to use the + movement and provoke for more than a turn it will have paid for itself 10 fold.
Anyways like I said earlier; play like your Reva, and be patient with your plays. You have over 20 pts of heal to fall back on, and the capability to keep developing your board while you are doing it. Keep chipping away at your opponent, and weathering their pokes and jabs, then finish them off.
[quote=“ancientmage, post:53, topic:5331”]
This deck is. . .stupid, but I love it, and it’s incredibly fun to play with. I would never lie and say I have a consistent winrate with this deck, and some card choices are obviously inefficient, but I’m just a diehard control player no matter what cardgame I’m playing. Of course there are still the classic Healyonar combos, but it’s more about controlling the game state.[/quote]
Another pretty ballsy deck! You don’t see many players with the cojones to run a deck with no P1T1 play! But, judging from the top-heavy nature of this list that might actually turn out okay. As a true control deck I think this looks pretty fleshed out, even without the stereotypical Martyrdom. Sterope and Solarius keep your hand stuffed so that should be okay as well. No Skorn, but I’m guessing Sterope, Riser and Immo are taking crowd control duty. I’ll add it to the list.
Meme or not, I think it deserves a place in the decklists section, thanks for sharing your reasoning. We haven’t seen a real toolbox deck like this one before. I’d personally swap out Fiz for Azurite Lion or Lightchaser though.
Oh, right, 3 days later and I realise you wanted a name for the deck, not the player…
um, Shuckle Lyonar.
Well well well, look what we have here:
Not just Excelsious, not just Trinity Oath, but now here’s Scintilla to try and help us out! To me she looks like she just might be the absolute real deal, and the 3 mana is an ideal cost since Skorn got bumped up to 4. What say you?[/details]
I say she’s scintillating, heh. Ob a serious note, good card and always something you can drop if you don’t feel like dropping Lancer or wanna combo out Lancer + bbs next turn to get +2 attack.
The strong 3/4 body really makes her a viable pick there; having something that can take 3-4 drops reasonably reliably is gonna help me out tremendously, even on off-BBS turns.
Zir’An, Stalwart [Streamlined]
Hardened through years of battle, we find Zir’An as an up-and-coming but still relatively unknown combatant employing tactics of pro-active attrition. She appear indestructible as she cuts through the battlefield–ever on the front lines–seemingly unscathed, brushing off tongues of flame and slashing claws as if they were mere illusion. In truth, her powerful magic and restorative experts help her recover as fast as she is harmed. She grits her teeth as she smiles at her foes, waiting for her allies to praise the sun and gather their strength.
So, Rise of the Bloodborn has transformed my main Healyonar deck quite a bit. Scintilla and Trinity Oath are game changers in general, but particularly so for me and I get a lot of benefit from both. Gone are the days of scraping by on single-healing-trigger turns in the early game. Gone are the days of running out of steam juggling Azure Heralds and Sundrop Elixirs to trigger combos. This deck is now a weird aggro-control hybrid mid-range combo deck, and the best dedicated Healyonar theme deck that I’ve ever been able to create.
The Stalwart deck relies on the effects of Sunforge Lancer and Sunriser to win–as many Healyonar decks do–but this version is able to be a lot faster and a lot more aggressive. With a very clean mana curve and a very tight card selection I’m able to very reliably do what I want and need it to do.
In this deck Zir’An is pushed to the forefront of combat: she should always be trading into things, taking face damage and punching the enemy General because guess what: we can generate waaay more health than the enemy can. In a battle of attrition, you just win. I summon Scintillas and Lancers out of the enemy’s reach and I stack bonuses for massive damage from Lightchasers, Sunrisers and Zir’An herself: that’s all.
All the Purity and healing cards should be more or less familiar to you so let me go over the utility cards briefly. Sunstone Templar is a real find and is great against a lot of common threats, combined with Sun Bloom I have all the dispel I’m realistically going to need. Aegis Barrier is great on four of my main Minions and helps me curve out and thin my deck for even more consistency. Martyrdom is an absolute necessity for my hard removal needs and this deck is strong enough in the mid-game to make up the enemy health gain (although it’s still best to try and play this card early on, before I start stacking significant damage). Trinity Oath is a perfect mid game play and the loss of tempo is manageable the vast majority of the time.
And that’s pretty much it!
Zir’An Sunforge - Sunforge Lancer does a lot of work in this deck, and if things go okay you’re likely to reach 5 Attack or more with Zir’An. This gives her plenty of power to wail on the enemy General–occasionally even outpacing Vaath–and finish a match herself. She’s going to be on the front lines anyway so we might as well make use of that.
Sunriser - Scintilla has really pushed Sunriser to the forefront in terms of power. You’re very likely to be able to double trigger Sunriser on her summoning turn just as long as you can get a Scintilla to stick around. It takes more setup than Holy Immolation but there’s also potential for a lot more payout, especially when you reach the late game.
Lucent Beam - Lucent Beam just helps me push in that last 4-8 damage I need for the win. It’s nothing fancy, it just works. This deck can have trouble putting in that last bit of damage once the big enemy threats really start rolling but like a good neighbor, Lucent Beam is there.
Revisiting Sunstone Templar: An Underrated Card?
Control And Aggro Issue
Testing this out from a noob/trench tier perspective - will let you know my results !