So far the Skorn changes feel like a huge buff to Zir’an decks. Skorn’s much harder to remove at 4 health when he comes out and if you ramp him out t2 as player 1 he can be healed the turn after. He establishes early board presence that transitions into mid game which gives Zir’an time to set up her value engines.
Well it’s hard to say, really. I think all of the currently listed decks still hold up pretty well (after some tweaking to adjust for Skorn’s higher cost. The deck’s likely to revolve around Lucent Beam, Sunforge Lancer and Sunriser for the most part. I’m personally experimenting with a mostly new Healyonar concept where I try to exploit Duelyst’s ‘self-harm’ cards as much as I can; Sworn Avenger, Ruby Rifter etc coupled with Frostbone Naga, Blistering Skorn and even Chakkram. Not sure how good it is yet though.
Could you motivate your reasons for picking Hailstone Golem over something like Primus Shieldmaster? And L’Kian’s not too inconsistent? How did you tweak this after the recent patch?
I tend to agree: the bigger body is really nice and I don’t find the higher cost to harm the card significantly. It’s sad to have lost an easy P2T1 answer to big Abysswarm openers but the deck honestly deserved the slight bump so that’s cool too. Losing Being able to put up a fight against Plasma Storm and Makantor Jesus and trading against Elucidator is very nice. Not to mention surviving Phoenix Fires.
well before the patch hailstone golem allowed you to hold your own in your worst match up, magmar a faction played alot then and still now. 4 Attack put it outside of easy natural selection range & Plasma Storm, it had over 4 & 5 hp so it wasnt 1 shot by a makantor or Eludicator and it being a large body in general meant that it survived alot in every match up or forced resources to be spent. if it survived it was a good heal target if it died they did alot to do it and if you held 1 combo in hand you took tempo. As for L’Kian while not consistent all you have to do is go over lyonar and look at all the cards that are atleast “This wouldn’t upset me to get” and most of the cards in lyonar you can probably find a use for in a match even cards you often wouldn’t put into deck IE magnetize/beam shock all can find a use and the surprise of Kian into them is a Very powerful maneuver a person can make educated guesses on whats in your deck based upon general and what you play, if you play L’Kian you’ve suddenly thrown logic to the wind and they have to try and play around anything your faction could throw at them or kill you before it matters.
Right now I am still working on a list for Post Patch list, so I wont speak for anythings success rate but I feel alot of it is trying to just steal tempo from the enemy now. I have been testing this deck as of late and will be doing some more tomorrow on stream.
Most obvious changes I would make would be switching Fiz for either Light chaser or Windblade, Which I think would be the better choice imo
Have been playing a similar deck to mythicalbrits, with some hit and miss success. Having trouble taking the deck out of diamond rank, but a lot of that is due to my subpar gameplay feelsbadman!. If I could get some feed back on my Healyonar deck that would be great. Manaspring won’t let me make a landscape but my deck can be found at http://manaspring.ru/deckbuilder/lyonar/#MToyMywyOjI2LDI6MjAwNDMsMjoxMTA4NCwzOjEwOTgxLDM6MjAwNjQsMzo5LDI6MTEwNzksMzoxMSwzOjI5LDI6MTEwNDMsMzoxMDk5NSwzOjIwMDY3LDM6MjIsMjoyMDEwNCwyOjMwLDE6MjAyMjA=
Manaspring doesn’t play nice with Adblock, if you open up the link in an incognito window it’ll work fine.
Thanks to all three of you for your submissions and updates, there’s some really nice stuff here. Could you list the Ranks you’ve managed using the decks?
Here’s me coming at you with a new post-1.76 Healyonar deck concept! I’m still working on refitting the Lawgiver deck but I intend to post the updated version somewhere soon. I’ve actually been testing a new variant that I haven’t seen played or mentioned anywhere else. I have to credit @salesninja for setting me on the path of seeing how far I could push this concept. Without further ado:
Here we find an older, darker Zir’An; embittered after her peaceful ways failed to save those under her command one too many times. Her mending ways have started to give way to a colder impulse that drives her to seek vengeance against her enemies, embracing the pain of battle to make her stronger, seeking it even when the enemy relents their offensive.
The Pain-for-Gain Crew
Quite the different lineup for a Healyonar deck this time around! The Healyonar aspect has been toned down significantly, keeping only Sunforge Lancer and Lucent Beam for Purity cards. Instead, we get a more aggresive deck that punishes opponents for being aggressive. Sworn Avenger, Chakkram and Ruby Rifter are the key cards for this, enabled when needed by Blistering Skorn and Frostbone Naga.
The approach is similar to my Lawgiver deck but with the healing synergy turned down and the aggression turned up. You’re pushing face with Zir’An all the time, pushing the enemy away from backfield Lancers or Avengers (further protected by Aegis Barriers) where possible, baiting damage triggers where you can. Healing Mystic and Circle of Life keep Zir’An alive, Primus Fist provides some burst where needed and Night Watcher helps keep the deck’s two weakest matchups (Obelysk Vet and Vaath in general) in check. Sun Wisp helps bridge the gap for hand size until Ruby Rifter comes into play.
Position well, be very careful with your turn order and push the offensive for the win.
I’ve been having a very crappy month with Duelyst, so I’ve only played it into Rank 9, not sure how it measures up to the other variants. Will report when I am. Update: Rank 5, barely.
Ruby rifter lyonar something something
What do we think?
Amazing sprite aside, I think this is a big enough threat to splash a copy into slower/control heal decks for that one inevitable win condition. I’m thinking you’d run it in a deck with Aegis Barrier for a bit of insurance, and maybe even Magnetize so you can park it out of harm’s way and warp it close for the win. Does seem like a lot of setup for a card that might just get Shrouded down.
I was really hoping for a card with an immediate effect (like OG: heal everything on the board by 1) and maybe we’ll get one or two more goodies that help us out. All in all I think this isn’t likely to turn out good enough to push us into S-Rank, but it might be good enough to get people to tech Sunset Paragon a bit more.
I really wish dispel wasn’t so easily available sometimes.
What say you?
I feel like it should work, it’ll get me to run magnetize since alot of removal currently is just displacement based and not hard removal ontop also a minion that gives us a proper win-con is insanely useful because we no longer are building decks within a vacuum, we’ve been upgraded from shooting in the dark to actually having a shooting range, and thats a important step to seeing Zir’an become Viable.
(This is me just recycling a convo I had with a very good Zir’an player Powinthekissa)
Personally I like this card and I think it will be good for most ziran decks. I think people are overreacting to the issue of removal countering this card. Yes, it can be dispelled, displaced, or destroyed… But is that really the end of the world?
In the Duelyst world championship qualifiers, there were plenty of decks running Zir in bond Argeon. In fact, in one game, a double Zir was the reason that the Lyonar player won the game. Zir can be destroyed/dispelled too - but guess what, the opponent happened to not have the answers due to the onslaught of threats up to that point in the game.
I for one am so used to seeing my sunforged lancers, ruby rifters, sunrisers, ironcliffs, etc. being dispelled and destroyed, that at some point, they will either run out of answers for this big guy, or they will need to let me have a better midgame to hold an answer for him.
And remember, this thing has celerity. If they do displace him, it will take half the time to get him back into the fray. Is it the best legendary we have ever seen? No. But it is big, has celerity and provoke, and is a must-answer in the late game or they lose. I have a hard time believing this won’t make most ziran decks inherently more powerful - if only by the fact that they now have to play around it (think Aymara healer - everyone saves a dispel and aspect of the fox for that guy, but does it mean that card is bad? If it doesn’t get answered, it swings the game instantly).
I agree completely Sailor so many people keep saying “Lol I’ll just hold X Y or Z” for it and forget its a 8 MANA minion which means that for the entirety of the game I am going to be playing out, Sunforge Lancers, Sunrisers, LightChasers, Suntide Maidens, Iron Cliffes and people are just going to ignore them because of Excelcious existence? then he has already done his job he won the game through sheer pressure alone.
Well in a game like HS you’re likely to run out of answers, but in Duelyst you have access to 3 copies of each. Do you ever run into a scenario where players run out of answers by 9 mana? The game is fast enough that waiting longer means you just win or lose based on the merits of other things.
Sure the threat of Excelsious can change enemy behaviour, but is it worth the inconsistency of drawing a card you might rarely get to play? Most decks run both sources of dispel and hard removal; if the enemy notices you’re playing a slow deck it shouldn’t be hard to anticipate “something” big coming, right? I do hope I’m overly cynical here, because I’d like very much to play this one.
well yes but thats my exact point Thematsjo, whether they recognise the threat is coming or not if they hold out to counter it Healnar has enough things that if you leave them uncontested we WILL spiral out of control very fast. so in that even yes you may not get to play the card but the very fact of its existence means that you may not even need to.
I actually mused the idea early on stream that because excelcious exists you may want to just run a tougher early/mid game healnar and just beat them down as most people after the expansion are going to be expecting and trying to hold cards for excelcious and if you have a better mid game then you will beat them to death based upon the meer threat of a card you dont run.
I’d maybe run a single (or two copies) in case they do try to shut down your midgame to be able to call your bluff
Do you ever run into a scenario where they don’t have removal at 9 mana? Yes, you do. Maybe not so often, but there will be games where they run out or at least run out of any they had in their hand so they don’t have any at the time, and this will be a new tool for ziran to threaten the game immediately when that happens.
Your concern is valid, there are many instances where it will be countered. But don’t lose hope! I think you are being a tad pessimistic with regards to its impact. Definitely try it first before writing it off.
Like I said earlier, the same thought process could be said for Zir, yet I can remember many games I’ve had where Zir came through big, and a few I’ve seen in some tournaments as well.
I’ve been playing the deck for a bit, played about 20 games, and won every game, other than those against Vaath, of which I’ve lost each and every one, played about 3/4, any suggestions?
It’s a much slower variant, meant to burn out the opponent until they run out of threats, at which point you kill them with high burst potential.
Yeah, sure I do, but I try to look at these things in terms of averages. Over the course of 100 matches, how often am I going to benefit from playing Excelsious? Sure, it’s going to be awesome at least some of the time and those moments will feel great, but is that representative for its performance as a whole? And if it isn’t, wouldn’t my deck be better sticking with more reliably good cards, or those that counter specific key threats? Same goes for Z’Ir. Silverguard Knight is worth the investment in almost every. single. match. and even when it gets dispelled or removed the smaller investment makes that less of a disaster in most cases. I guess I’m not disagreeing with you, just thought I’d expand on my way of thinking.
Damn that Vaath, I can’t win for shit against him as well. This thread isn’t meant for deck building, but if/when you’re happy with it I can add it to the community lists; please add a name and the highest rank you reached using it if/when you do.
Um, sure, ign is the same, and atm I’m rank 14, but it’s only the beginning of the month.
Though, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, you never answered my question.
EDIT: make that 13
IGN? I’m not familiar with this abbreviation. I can amend the highest rank later if you shoot me a quick pm or something so that’s not a problem :).
I didn’t answer your question on purpose, to quote the OP:
I’d be glad to provide feedback on your deck, but in a dedicated thread please.
In game name, also, fair enough, I think I can be excused for not reading the entire essay at the top.