Healyonar and Healing efficiency

[seraphicreaper]

I wasn’t sure if I wanted to make a new post or continue the old one. With that, just below is a link to the original thread and my reply (which I’ll also provide in a tab below as well)

Heal Lyonar is Great for Duelyst: A Hypothesis by thematsjo

[details=My post/reply from previous thread]These 2 cards alone summarize the issue I perceive with the Healyonar archetype

Scintilla

https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/duelyst-vi.gamepedia.com/thumb/8/8c/Scintilla.png/250px-Scintilla.png?version=aa485829797127fa42174dac3fa91135

Whiplash

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzVBI1zXUAEf_X0.png

Sorry for sizing, just grabbed off google images.

The issue I see is that healing has been designed to be more efficient than out of hand or burst damage. Azure Herald (2 mana) healing negates Saberspine Tiger’s damage (3 mana). Even with this, Azure Herald remains with a 1/4 body on the board and costs 1 mana less.

This was more fine in the past due to the limited amount of healing cards present, as they offered ways to swing or catch back up from more aggressive (aggro) decks.

What Healyonar has been showing though is that due to the quantity of healing available to them, and its (designed) state of outvaluing damage cards naturally, that Healyonar doesn’t just handle aggro, but outvalues and performs a massive amount of other cards.

Sundrop elixir to pheonix fire
Scintilla to Whiplash
Azure Herald (or Sundrop) to Tiger
etc. etc. (there are plenty of comparisons available)

When a faction has an equal or greater value response to an opponent on every given turn, well…Healyonar happens.

Personally, if a faction was designed to have a healing archetype, its weakness needs to be in losing steam like aggro decks do, but with the current status/existence of Trinity Oath, Healyonar can address a full spectrum of opponents, from fastpaced aggro to longterm control decks. Additionally, or alternatively, a healing archetype/faction should have stats that are more comparable to other factions than the current healing ratios/values provide. Healyonar has produced the result of these abuses.[/details]

I wanted to bring this up again because

1. I find this topic important enough to reiterate due to the potential impact the archetype and implementation that healing has to Duelyst.

2. A second direct comparison case study sprung to mind.

[details=Circle of Life]
[/details]

[details=Cobra Strike]
[/details]

The intention of this post is reiteration for both emphasis and for a second notification to the developers. I’m not claiming, nor seeking, changes to anything. As stated, the purpose of this was to re-bring this to attention in hopes of placing a close eye to prevent Duelyst from going off into a direction that the developers may not seek. Any details about this topic and point can be read in my post/reply tab (above).

Thank you all very much for reading.

[kingw]

I think you’re missing a crucial element in this equation. Yes, immediate healing is more efficient than immediate damage (immediate being synonymous with out of hand). But let’s take your comparison of Scintilla vs. Whiplash to illustrate a point…

Consider over the span of two turns (lets say both players only have an opportunity to activate their BBS once): Scintilla represents three points of guaranteed healing, while Whiplash actually represents two damage of guaranteed damage and four points of potential damage.

There is actually a much larger quantity of damage than there is healing if you take into consideration this “potential damage” (think combat damage & things such as 4WM, Chakri, etc). Healing requires some type of effect while damage will occur naturally over the course of the game. It is because of these factors that immediate healing is more efficient than immediate damage (even looking at other CCGs/TCGs, this is usually the case).

edit: To clarify, I’m not saying Lyonar doesn’t have some ridiculously high-value cards right now, just explaining the likely thought process behind CPG’s balancing.

[BlankTrack]

I have always been a fan of healing, even as an Argeon player. Before RotB I was usually running 1 or 2 copies of both Sundrop and Circle of Life. Healing is super strong, not only in Healyonar. I think over time there will be more decks with healing thrown in.