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Heal Lyonar is Great for Duelyst: A Hypothesis

Heal Lyonar is Great for Duelyst: A Hypothesis

Introduction

Oh, how the times have changed. I’ve been seeing some players complaining about the power of the newly-prominent Zir’An heal decks (Healyonar) following the release of RotB! They find it difficult to contend with an archetype that can so easily summon such a large volume of healing which makes it very difficult for a lot of common decks to punch through and finally take down. I’ll be arguing that a strong Healyonar presence is actually excellent for Duelyst as a whole, based partly on the specific properties of the archetype, and my personal theorized impact it has on the gaming meta from at least Gold Rank and up. Disclaimer: I have a strong personal pro-Healyonar bias as many will know, so I will likely be overstating things here. I’m also a Gold-Diamond Rank player.

Healyonar Archetype Properties

First off, let’s have a look at three key properties of Healyonar that makes it almost a perfect fit for Duelyst in terms of fun game play.

  1. Non-Burst Reliant
    Healyonar decks are typically mid-range or control and don’t finish off their opponents through large bursts of damage in the mid-game after early skirmishes. Unlike all of Magmar, Faice, Spellhai and Tempo Argeon these Healyonar decks do damage over time in increments, allowing for a significant amount of counter play. You rarely feel as if you got taken down out of nowhere and Healyonar typically needs to build up their advantage if it wants to do a lot of damage. Double Lucent Beam can and does definitely end matches but typically only after an enjoyable back and forth between players. 15 out-of-hand damage is pretty much unheard of.

  2. Position Reliant
    Related to the first point, Healyonar is strongly reliant on positioning! The archetype uses a lot of minions that need protecting, so using smart positioning to keep key minions alive on the board is key. In addition, their minions need to be damaged in order to get healed, so making sure your minions are in range of something they can hit is key to actually getting healing triggers off. The opponent is also encouraged to be smart with their positioning, even if it just comes down to backing off for a turn to deprive the Healyonar player of a key turn! Finally, Sunriser is completely positioning dependent, which delivers a challenge for both players to contend with.

  3. Skill Reliant
    And finally, Healyonar is very difficult to play well! Hand management, positioning, play order, tactical replacing, knowing the enemy: these and more are all factors that Healyonar players need to master to actually make the deck work. You can’t just go face and you can’t just stall the game: you need to mix and match your actions to the game state at each and every turn. Healyonar encourages high-level decision-making and skillful anticipation, and Duelyst is all the better for it.

Meta Impact

After painting that very pretty picture, let’s move on to the benefits Healyonar prominence brings to the game overall.

  1. Checks Aggressive Decks
    Aggressive decks can’t beat Zir’An? Good! Duelyst has had trouble punishing overly aggressive decks in the past–made only worse by the release of a lot of insanely efficient draw cards–which makes the meta very one-sided and potentially stale. Healyonar is a mid-range deck that is fast enough to survive the early aggressive onslaught by these decks in order to reach the mid-to-late game where it can out-value and overpower most of of these decks a significant amount of the time. This discourages an over-abundance of face decks in the meta, slowing things down to make room for a greater diversity! Speaking of…

  2. Promotes Control Decks
    Healyonar is good at checking aggressive decks but it doesn’t itself have an inevitable win condition in the way true control decks do. Healyonar doesn’t have a Variax, and Obliterate, a Meltdown etc and this gives it a hard time surviving against true control archetypes. This means that in order to beat Healyonar it makes sense to start running more control decks! The slower meta facilitated by Zir’An opens up space for these slow decks to shine because they’re less likely to be consistently blown out by aggressive decks. In this way Healyonar acts like a mediator that diversifies the meta by replacing an Aggro < more Aggro paradigm with a cyclical Control < Aggro < Healyonar < Control paradigm, delivering a game state that is not only more fun, but especially way more diverse.

Conclusion

If you like seeing a diverse Duelyst meta you should totally go play some of your own Healyonar decks! Punish the aggressive decks again and again until a lot of players decide they need to hop on the bandwagon themselves or start taking up a control deck again to overpower all the smug Healyonar players like me.

Don’t hate the Healyonar, embrace it.

Thoughts?

11 Likes

Uh, just to jump in, all the top Healyonar decks DID use Meltdown as a win con.

Yeah cause u know we all want our games to go on for a extra 10,mins.

2 Likes

These 2 cards alone summarize the issue I perceive with the Healyonar archetype

Scintilla

https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/duelyst-vi.gamepedia.com/thumb/8/8c/Scintilla.png/250px-Scintilla.png?version=aa485829797127fa42174dac3fa91135

Whiplash

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzVBI1zXUAEf_X0.png

Sorry for sizing, just grabbed off google images.

The issue I see is that healing has been designed to be more efficient than out of hand or burst damage. Azure Herald (2 mana) healing negates Saberspine Tiger’s damage (3 mana). Even with this, Azure Herald remains with a 1/4 body on the board and costs 1 mana less.

This was more fine in the past due to the limited amount of healing cards present, as they offered ways to swing or catch back up from more aggressive (aggro) decks.

What Healyonar has been showing though is that due to the quantity of healing available to them, and its (designed) state of outvaluing damage cards naturally, that Healyonar doesn’t just handle aggro, but outvalues and performs a massive amount of other cards.

Sundrop elixir to pheonix fire
Scintilla to Whiplash
Azure Herald (or Sundrop) to Tiger
etc. etc. (there are plenty of comparisons available)

When a faction has an equal or greater value response to an opponent on every given turn, well…Healyonar happens.

Personally, if a faction was designed to have a healing archetype, its weakness needs to be in losing steam like aggro decks do, but with the current status/existence of Trinity Oath, Healyonar can address a full spectrum of opponents, from fastpaced aggro to longterm control decks. Additionally, or alternatively, a healing archetype/faction should have stats that are more comparable to other factions than the current healing ratios/values provide. Healyonar has produced the result of these abuses.

7 Likes

I somewhat agree. While I do like the deck and think that it is by far the most tame out of all the decks that have / can dominate the meta, there is no denying that some cards in it are over-tuned. Trinity oath, for example, gave a faction with little prior history of card draw the best card draw spell in the game. I personally would like to see a few minor nerfs, perhaps making Oath heal for more and draw 2 cards or cost more.

1 Like

My biggest issue with the “positioning” in healyonar is that, for 2 of the decks’ staples (scintilla and lancer), it’s essentially just placing them in the corner and doing nothing with them while they give you free value.

1 Like

cough Kelaino, Shadowdancer, Priestess cough

hashtag notbitter :smile:

Priestess positioning is critical, your wraithlings have to be close enough to hit next turn, even if they run away, but you need to ideally play her in a place where you can generate a perfect protect wraithling shield.

Kelaino and Shadowdancer tho… yeah just shove em back there lol

2 Likes

At least with priestess and shadowdancer it makes you play the board, which is something that I think is good about abyssian (not this I spam bbs 3 times cryptograper 5/5 wraithling garbage). Kelaino, on the other hand, is one of the cards I hate in terms of both design and power.

That being said, you can’t really complain with bloodrage and four winds, but those aren’t nearly as toxic as kelaino.

At the end of the day, I’d like to see the heal on oath, as well as many other cards, nerfed.

I’m fine with Healyonar and I do agree with most of what you say. Just two comments:

  1. Though Healyonar decks do not have an inevitable win condition, they do run Meltdown most often. They still get crushed by real control decks, so this is not a big concern

  2. I don’t think Healyonar is that hard to play. Lyonar have tons of efficient minions of relatively low cost. It is not horrible sometimes to dump your hand to fill the board and use an insane card like Trinity Oath to replenish your hand

Remember, whenever you get tilted from playing against Healnor, look at this picture of Zir’nyan Catforger:

6 Likes

That needs to be an in-game skin.

1 Like

I do have to agree going forward cp is gonna have to be very careful with implementing heal cards and not making Zirran unto a immortal God.

Sorry, after seeing multiple zirans in a row. Not really seeing where skill or thought is really required.

Lay down cards, keep everything healthy, lancers and scintillas in back, heal heal heal, immolates, sunriser’s psuedo immolate, then trinity for a new run.

Who cares about burst when you can’t get dented?

F’ing tired of Ziran. Getting real old real quick.

4 Likes

Not going to give thought on Heal Zir’an for now but wanted to reply to this

Never judge a deck’s difficulty like that, to you it might just looks like the opponent throwing minions in a very simplistic manner but what goes into the opponent’s head? How many turns do they think ahead? How often do they replace a card they really don’t want to just to look for an answer to what they expect you to play a turn or two from now?

These are just some of many things you’ll never notice until you watch/read a commentary about the deck OR play it for a good chunk of time

1 Like

I care, since I’ve managed to burst (or outlasted) most of my opponents this season including against people using Zir’an/Heal Lyonar decks. Healing doesn’t stop the damage its just a temporary bandage on a bleeding wound. Healing costs tempo most of time, so as long as you can keep up the damage and card draw, the healing is just prolonging their death.

2 Likes

i’m sorry for my word here.

but fuck trinity oath.

i have no problem with zir’an or any of her combo, even the god damn holy immolation but after she does all that, please run out of cards.

nope, fucking trinity oath coming your way.

5 Likes

For Shiro.
I want this - now!

Good post, and I agree Heal Lyonar has been great for the meta. Might have to try it myself…

1 Like

I dont want to offend you in any way, but Healyonar is olny good against bursty face or small non-tempo aggro decks.

Healing does nothing to win you the game[quote=“seraphicreaper, post:4, topic:8341”]
Sundrop elixir to pheonix fireScintilla to WhiplashAzure Herald (or Sundrop) to Tigeretc. etc. (there are plenty of comparisons available)
[/quote]

  1. You cant close out the game with sundrop elixir. Also sundrop does not remove threats. So if Zir’an was hit by elucidator and used sundrop, she just mitigated first part of damage and still has a minion to handle.

  2. Scintilla is just a 3/4 for 3 mana. Her effect does not affect the board in any way, shape or form. The same goes for any other healing card.

  3. Your healing cards are useless agianst anything that does not aim to hit your general with everything they have. While your deck has slots occupied by healing, opponent might just include good minions and be insanely more efficient with his cards.

  4. Tempo decks just completely demolish healyonar. In fact the worst matchup in my experience outside cassyva (with all her tempo-control tools) is tempo argeon. Zir’an’s minions just cant be damaged and left alive in that match up. And wastiong mana on healing is suicide.

5.[quote=“seraphicreaper, post:4, topic:8341”]
Personally, if a faction was designed to have a healing archetype, its weakness needs to be in losing steam like aggro decks do
[/quote]

Then there would not be a single point in playing healing deck whatsoever, as you are an aggro deck that instead of killing your opponent, just keeps itself alive doing nothing therefore losing to aggro (as minions are better than healing), tempo and control (mentioned earlier). So this deck would just disappear as it does absolutly nothing and is good against nothing. Now healyonar is anti-aggro deck that sometimes crushes face decks, but loses to control.

The trinity oath is fine by me because you waste a ton of recourceshealing and doing nothing and then even more mana on doing nothing. I only might cause problems in argeon, but in Zir’an it rarely does.

So the point im making is that the only people that are complaining about healonar are aggro decks that want to burst down your opponent by out of hand damage, as everything else is not threatened by Zir’ans non-tempo game.

5 Likes