Grandmaster Z'ir's improvment


#1

Grandmaster Z’ir is 5/12 lyonar legendary that becomes your general if your original one dies. So if he becomes your general, why wouldnt it have his unique BBS? I really hoped for this to happen with the introduction of the BBS in general but Zir just copies your original BBS. I believe that this new BBS can be on higher level than basic ones just due to the fact that getting Zir to become your general is already quite a challenge

Here are 2 of my ideas.

Battlemaster
1 mana
Give a friendly minion nearby your general +2/+2 and restore 2 health to it.

Or

Give a friendly minion Zeal: When this minion deals damage,restore that much health to it and your general.

And what are your ideas?


#2

I might be wrong, but from what I’ve read here in the last few months, becoming Z’ir is very polarizing in that you either become overwhelmed immediately because you invested huge mana into this minion which only offers one square of board presence, or you’re about to kill somebody like a big Vaath. Would the BBS really change that?

However, I’ve always wondered about this (whether he had his own or not), and they are pretty cool ideas, considering he doesn’t.


#3

The ones you propose are too OP. Yes, I understand, it’s supposed to be a “reward” for having your general dying and him surviving at the same time. But think about it. Zir is already a second chance. Don’t you think it’s already powerful enough? Also, it would just kill BBS synergy with the deck.


#4

To be fair both of his suggestions give healing, which is the only specific trigger Lyonar uses for its cards.


#5

Well, that’s true. Never mind this part


#6

These days Zir is just an unconsistent 12 health heal and having him in your deck is already quite a risk. You dont even imagine how often he gets removed. And when you actually become a grandmaster you usually run beacuse your healthcount isnt high so i see no problem with making it more like a defensive win condition, the “opposite” of spectral revenant. I like the idea of slowing the game down, but that requires apropriate cards. And this is still just a fun consept. It doesnt have to be balanced it just has to be cool.


#7

Well, of course it will get removed ! I would NEVER let a Zir on my board for Makantor’s sake !
I already played against him and even if it wasn’t hard to win, it’s still a pain to deal 12 damage AGAIN.


#8

I like him as is, he’s just expensive and too easy to remove. But if you make him impossible to target with spells or air drop him and suicide or give him that divine bond next turn he’a great.


#9

in hearthstone there is a minion for one of the classes called jarraxus (i might have spelled it wrong). It’s a very similar card that replaces your hero with it, essentially giving you a second chance. jarraxus is actually played quite heavily in most control warlock decks while z’ir is considered pretty bad. I think this is because jarraxus not only replaces your hero, he does it immediately, gives your general the ability to attack (which isn’t normal in HS), and gives you an overpowered hero power (bloodborn spell). Z’ir does make your general attack for more but i think it needs one of the other two elements to be viable. and i personally think giving him a better bbs would be fitting and make the card better


#10

Z’ir doesn’t need a buff, it’s one of the best late game cards. Too bad nearly all of them suffer from hard removals and faster decks (well, at least the meta is slightly slower now). I’ve been playing 2 Z’irs in my midrange Argeon list since 3 seasons (1x earlier) and they won me some games on the road to S last season. The worst matchup for it is definitely any Magmar list, unless you’re lucky enough to Aegis it. Thumping Wave completely shuts it down and you don’t even get rabbits general the turn your general dies.


#12

It might work for Hearthstone but it really doesn’t for Duelyst.Zir doesn’t need a separate bbs its goal
to extend what general is all ready doing.The big difference while in hearthstone Jaruxxaus is one huge special play in Duelyst you can drop Grandmaster Zir 3 times and don’t realize how ridiculous Zir is until you have 2 of them on the board.

Zir is fine as is and metagame is slowing down enough to use him.Kolos(and couple others) used Zirs in tournament yesterday.


#13

I think it would be fine if Zir’s BBS is just the old general’s but with the added effect of restoring one health to your general. It is a bit more powerful, and helps Zir stay alive


#15

Granddaddy Z is Zir’an’s adopted father, so I think it’d be cool if he had a mix of Argeon and Zir’an’s BBS, maybe something that’s an improvement on the original general? Give a minion nearby your general +2 attack and restore +2health to it.


#17

Bloodborn Spell: Your General may move an additional space.

-or-

Bloodborn Spell: Your General has Celerity until end of turn.


#18

10 damage Burst Lmao.


#19

I wouldn’t call it “burst” but it’s quite hefty! :smile:

Not really meant to compare 1:1 to another faction, but Magmar does have an unanswerable 10 burst damage card (the one that transform him into a 10/10) whereas Z’ir can be answered.

That said, my first idea was my original idea that I feel shouldn’t step on any toes and feels a bit more thematic with a General on a mount in addition to possibly needing the extra space of movement for positioning/fleeing.

:wink:z


#20

if you give him provoke, when your general becomes zir’s do you keep the provoke?

maybe a bbs that gives provoke to a minion is a great way of keeping yourselve alive


#21

+2 +2 and heal +2 for 1 mp? wtf man? min 4mp manacost skill for 1mp. maybe add bbs (if u use this u won the game)?


#22

Sory, but I mean it is a bullshit. Z’ir is OP right now. If Argeon plays him and die this turn. It is like : Give your general +12 health and pernament +3 attack… I mean it is enought. Main think that makes me problem is his attack, because if I play aggro deck, he kills almost all my minions to one hit, or hits my general for 5. And it is devastating for aggro.


#23

If you cant play around it, you are not the one to talk about balance. You have never played with Z’ir in your deck and you dont know why he isnt used in every single Lyonar deck(unlike spectral revenant and makantor). So if i got 12 health heal for 7 mana its only fair that i get late game advantage(having the fact that i actually put a 7 mana minion in my deck while sometimes games dont even last that long).

Zir IS meant to be counter aggro card, but even there he is mediocre.