These numbers include pre-expansion games, so you’ll have to wait for this month’s stats first before making any real statements.
Grandmaster Variax
Well, vetruvian has a sample size of one game. With that, those kind of exceptions could take place. Please at least bother to understand the statistic before posting those kind of comments because they clearly show a lack of knowledge of how statistics work. At least I was trying to be helpful to the thread instead of mindlessly bashing other people’s post without understanding them.
However, next months stats should help clear things out.
My bad, I honestly thought that the statistics came from the expansion release onwards. I will wait for the december ones to see how things go.
Well, Gabriek is a poster known for his jokes. With that, those kinds of exceptions could take place. Please at least bother to understand humor before posting those kinds of comments because they clearly show a lack of knowledge of how jokes work. At least I was trying to bring joy and laughter to the world instead of mindlessly bashing other people’s posts without understanding them. This response is also a joke.
In case you didn’t know what a joke is [details=Joke definition]
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Hey guys, please keep it on topic or Ill have to close the thread, thanks!
Am I missing something or are these stats strange? Seeing how Duelyst is a game where every win comes at a loss for someone else (draws left aside as they neither change anything for the winner nor the loser), the sum of win rates should be equal to ‘number of generals’/2, no? I.e. if we had two generals, the win rates should always add up to 1, for four generals it’s 2, and so on. Yet here everybody only seems to win.
I assume this means two things: the data doesn’t include all games that were played (not much of a surprise here) and mostly consists of players who have above 50% win rate, seeing how the accumulated WRs contain way more wins than losses. How is this data collected? Do the contributors get to decide which games they upload and which not or do you either upload all of your games or none?
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While I completely agree with your sentiments about Variax and nerfs in general… Kron feels like a bad-bad example here. He might have been totally ok in higher tiers, but where I as a beginner played back then, it totally felt like who draws more Krons wins.
It makes me wonder if that’s secretly the case with Variax in silver-gold… but that’s not what I have seen in there so far.
On the other hand, after 150+ messages, is there really more to say about Canceriax ?
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The system you’re describing is called “zero-sum”. Additionally, people with a particular MMR can play players outside of those brackets, which leads to wins more than likely, thus raising their winrates.
People complaining about Variax while entropic gaze+tectonic Spikes+decimus is a thing. This is uninteractive and unfun, not Variax.
Yes its a powerfull card but its almost fine as It is. The only change that i would suggest is to turn lilithe awesome bbs in “all’ your wraithlings are furious, summoning 3 wraithlings”. In that way you need wraithlings in the board to make a bunch of 5/5, similar to cassyva. But if you dont have a board you are still developing 3 1/1 that has sinergy with furosa and other cards.
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It’s not because Decimus combo is boring and unfun that it will make Variax less boring, there is no cause/consequence here.
Both are most of the time a game closer, both are unfun and boring. It’s not unusual to see insta concede when Variax hits the board.
And I’m not complaining, it’s just a fact, these two (Variax and Decimus combos) are cancer. And as I can’t cure cancer, I’m just spreading it, until nerf happens 
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Was recently beaten by Zir’an with Variax on board. Sunriser + double scyntilla didn’t leave me a chance to develop a board.
Everything is possible.
Were you killed by 6 damage from that combo? How many turns passed since your variax was played? Was this Zir’an mostly going face? Ocasional wins due to your bad hand and absense of 100% winrate of variax lilith does not make this card less problematic.
In my experience, the only matches I won against Variax Lilithe when Variax hit the board was then I was able to smorc the opponent and get lethal the turn afterward. I may not be the best player around, but I’m not the worse either (rank 3 last month) and I strongly doubt that the average player has a better experience than me with Variax.
I think Variax is fine in Cassyva, but not in Lilithe. If you ramp Variax in Cassyva, you only get a 7/7 and you actually weaken your BBS, since if you have no creeps Variax’s improvement does nothing. The problem with Lilithe is that the BBS does not require any setup and it’s so strong immediately.
It also promotes dumb strategies. In my experience, Variax often comes out at turn 5. From that point in time, the game plan is just spamming BBS, which is unfun.
Hate to say it, but MMR is sortof irrelevant for statistics concerning balance. The incentive systems in Duelyst encourage a player to ladder aggressively, using decks that either win or lose quickly so that the player can grind to a peak rank for reward claiming. Rather, many players hit a goal rank (usually diamond or S), and then “meme out” with more experimental builds. The result, tends to be that many player’s MMR bottoms out as the season goes on because they aren’t always going to be playing what might be optimal- since once they’ve reached incentive goals, there is nothing else to do for the season (unless they really want to be top50.)
Rather, statistics based on MMR, should be taken with the understanding of how warped ladder play is. Where MMR relative to tournament play would be far more reliable (notice, also that tourney decks tend to be on the slower end- because tournaments aren’t about fitting the greatest number of games into a timeframe.)
In that context- the power level of Variax is nebulous at best. Against slower decks, many assume that it dominates, however- Sunset Paragon and Lightbender among other universal answers slow down the play significantly. Not to mention that many midrange and control decks can simply out-tempo a pair of 5/5s developed every turn.
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Any idea on how Variax is performing on tournaments recently? I have been quite absent from the scene since christmas for christmasy reasons
Yes the card isnt tht powerful in gold and diamond well im usually always in diamond throughout the season (i dont know how Variaxx is in S-Rank). I rarely see her anymore and even when i see her i never feel like im going to lose, i understand what you mean by her being powerful in lower teirs cause you lack the proper cards to not care about minions just being stats (just guessing). But in my opinion i see Variaxx as just a big stat minion, nothing more
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Were you killed by 6 damage from that combo? How many turns passed since your variax was played? Was this Zir’an mostly going face? Ocasional wins due to your bad hand and absense of 100% winrate of variax lilith does not make this card less problematic.
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No, I wasn’t killed. But every couple of my furious wraithlings were.
Plenty of turns.
Yes, she was.
Vomited my hand on early Variax, topdecked since then
Why are you so sour? I won with Variax, I lost against Variax, I won without Variax, I lost without Variax. What I was trying to stress is that Variax is beatable by any but superslow deck.
Also, as already mentioned more than once, most ramp Variax decks are inconsistent. While one may see turn 2 Variax in some games, most games it isn’t there even on turn 4.
Edit. And I do play Zir’an also. And I’m going much more agressive when I see Abyssian. And it’s how it works. And I consider it OK. 'Cause sometimes it’s another win for Zir’an…
After a couple weeks of the expansion I don’t get the variax hate train. Like many have said the ramp list is pretty inconsistent, seems as about as effective as OTK sajj
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What I don’t get it is why anyone would want to play it in a ramp shell. Why not just play the standard Lilith lists that focus on early- to mid-game control, all the efficient removal and life gain that Abyssian has and then just throw in three Variax to take care of all your late-game desires?
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