This happens too often 
But if you manage to set up lots of creeps, itâs ridiculously OP
Grandmaster Variax
But i dont win every game with itâŚReally notâŚThe most wins result from abusing Deathfirecrsendo or the DeathwatchweaponâŚ
But if Variax goes out of controlâŚOk then its surely game overâŚ
A possible Change could be:
- Dont let him buff every WraithlingâŚjust buff the two ones you can make with your BloodbornspellâŚ
- Or an Manacost increase to 8 or even 9âŚlets say 9 so ramping isnt that easy
One honest opinion: He is NO AutowinâŚSo what,imo
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If you want to change Variax here is the one and only chamge I will accept :
The order in which the BBSâ effects activates.
Just make it so the Wraithlings are summoned AFTER the others ones are buffed. Simple. Efficient. Fair. No complains.
Hire me Ryvâ already!
I forgot to mention, that I play cassy too on that matchup, so basically I denied all of my opponent creeps until only 4 are left 
Such evilness 
More like a personal vendetta, since I opened 8 packs already, and still no sign of variax 
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What?
Magmar need 3 cards on turn 1 as player 2. Playing it on turn 2 isnât as strong and it might just get killed. Silithar elder is actually much weaker than variax on lilith.
Doesnât mean i like that combo or play it or something i consider it a âsh*t happensâ situation its like getting perfect hand on songhai and deal 20 damage on turn 2, get a mechazor out on turn 2 and things like that.
It happens very rarely. This is not the case here.
(If magmar could play that combo every second game believe me i would ask for a nerf there as well)
Abyssians need only 2 cards by 5 mana turn. Possibly turn 2 depends where you started, the probability of getting 2 cards is much higher than that of getting 3. And you can increase it even more.
I saw a stream of a dude playing abyssians he could play it on 5-6 mana turn atleast every second game, that is not rare at allâŚ
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I would recommend waiting it out before nerfing it.
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That seems quite a harsh nerf. Probably worse than what i suggested.
It would mean most of the time they just get 2 1/1 for 3 mana unless have wraithlings on board.
Not sure if it will be playable like this, but it does actually require to build some board and has some counterplay i wouldnât mind such a change.
Magmar can actually play elder turn 1 and abyss cant play variax turn 1. And also magmar has it easier to ramp elder than abyssian because the actually dont need a minion on the board. To play elder and variax on the same turn requires the same amount of cards. You are arguing that it is more consistent to ramp variax when it is actually more consistent to ramp elder, your comparisons are very skewed and extremely subjective.
Also, variax is no automatic win. Apart from the fact that she takes at least 2 turns to come into effect, many factions have tools to combat it outside of aggro. Faie can stall it out and warbird or combo the general, Songhai can still combo the general, Lyonar (not healyonar) tends to win well before the effect of variax comes into play, magmar has multiple rush minions to continually damage lilithe if by some miracle she isnt dead by then and vetruvian can punish any kind of swarm with stars fury, or play a noshrak far back and just blast away at lilithe or play aymaras.
Why not try to find ways to deal with it and wait before the expansion meta has had more time to settle before taking the easy route out of something you personally dont like and crying for nerfs?
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My initial reaction (as a Lilithe main, even) was that this card seemed very strong and could maybe use a nerf. After playing against it for several days with many factions though, and playing with it quite a few times as well, I think it is probably fine.
While very strong, it makes the deck pretty predictable and is weak to early tempo plays, aggro, and silence effects. Using a standard Lilithe swarm deck with deathfire crescendo as a finisher (with NO variax or dark sacrifice), I canât remember a single game that I lost against a variax Lilithe. They just donât have the early game or clear to deal with that quick aggression when their whole focus is to ramp out the Variax. Tempo lyonar, aggro Faie, they seemed to have fine matchups to me. I mean, if you play a slow control deck and made it to late game against them with Variax up for half the game, then yeah it is too strong to overcome most of the time. But overall, I didnât find the deck to be unbeatable or oppressive.
As someone mentioned in a previous post, if you think it is overpowered, then try playing that deck on the ladder - when you lose you can see how people are beating you. Itâs a good deck, and sure it wins a lot, but it is by no means unbeatable or without bad matchups. I think the meta just needs a little more time to play against it and adjust before we cry nerf.
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i donât like silithar elder as well. however i usually can handle a 5 mana turn elder reasonably well it doesnât even multiply as fast as variax does. the problem with elder is when he is played on turn 1 and that is rare.
if its so easy to win before it comes to play, maybe tell me how?. just now lost a game to this when he didnât even ramp it. just played on 7 mana turn. however he played smart: didnât go face at all, put wraithlings all around him, played kaleino and i barelly managed to get him to 1/2 hp as aggroish lyonar by turn 7. turn 8 he already had 5 5/5 wraithlings and i was surrounded after clearing the whole board. maybe i did a mistake here and there but seriously what could have i done? to deal with 5 5/5 that he just gets from hand, i cleared his board including variax himself before it. what more could i do?
pretty much every major streamer agrees that its âa little bit too strongâ they are tyring to integrate sunset paragon into every deck to try and delay the end a turn or 2 but how is it reasonable? every other card including silithar elder can be dealt with by dispells/removal it is more persistent than average but it doesnât multiply as fast in the beginning and you can ignore it for turn or maybe even 3. cassiva actually needs shadow creep alive and not occupied to get her already weaker minions(4/4 such weak much wow) lilithe just spams 2 to 5 5/5 per turn every turn (for 3-6 mana!!!) and i just need to deal with it.
This is a rather verbose thread. Anyway, how do you think Songhai would fare against this deck?
The only chance that vet has against Abyssian right now is early-mid game. If the enemy Abyssian is able to safely develop a blood moon priestess away from vet general then the 5/5âs that it generates will over power any late game that vet has barring any lucky spinecleaver, wildfire ankh combos. I havenât been able to try out obelisk vet for a while now, but it seems to me that it loses out to artifact vet in terms of speed and swing ability
If itâs anything like my Kaleos deck, probably just put a ranged minion in the back and then kill them. Recently, Iâve noticed a lot of Reva starting to pop up again, most likely to counter this form of Lilithe and the new Starhorn deck.
Well, Itâs an October Aggro Reva deck that Iâve been trying to slow down, but buffed Ki Beholder should do it.
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Iâm not sure this sentiment is a reflection of Variax as a card. If an abyssian player develops a safe blood moon priestess blocked from the Vet general, then the abyssian player would usually win anyway. This has been a weakness of the Vet vs Abyss matchup for quite some time.
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The thing about dispelling Variax to stop the buff - that would actually push him into the bad zone - since any hard removal (like thumping wave, or any silence) would stop him, and all his value, effectively defeating the purpose of the card. Him being a 9 cost, thatâs more acceptable, although playing him in the very lategame could be a bit costly for the abyssian, since you have to wait till 9 mana (or 7 mana if you get a sacrifice, but then it costs 7 mana, another card and a minion) , and then one MORE turn to actually get the effect off (and you will probably be dead by then). I agree, the card is a bit brutal for the player on the receiveing end, but not so that it needs an immediate nerf, maybe only if it proves to be a problem in the long run.
By the way, i have had numerous Variaxes played on me, i got the card myself from my first bloodborn ord, but i have not seen a Cassiva play it on me. Maybe Lilithâs effect is just better?
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ye unlimited wraithling obciously better
but since u can control cass why dont the devs frind a way to control the buffs maybe only one wraithling get the buff idk⌠but after some time i have changed my mind let abyssian have their win condition ill just stay in gold or diamond and avoid them lol
Even after the recent epidemic of Reva, whenever someones says songhai I still think of Kaleos summoning a deadly dude somewhere far away and then just moving him right in the opponents face. Iâd just move away from Lilithe and her army, summon my own grandmaster, thus forcing Lilithe to move her back away from the wall, next turn mist dragon/juxta the grandmaster behind her, slap a backstab on him with killing edges and saberspine seals for good measure, backstab her and then send a kiss emote as I end the turn and watch her commit a suicide.