Duelyst Forums

Grandmaster Variax

#67

Seems a bit harsh, wrong or right, some of the elements are there. Inspiration can come from many places, even if it becomes quite twisted in the end result. I don’t think he missed the mark, but he may not have hit it right on either. Give him some credit.

Multiple arms, Check. Don’t want it to be a direct copy with the weapons now do we? Also she does have different weapons depending on the general.

Still adaptive even if consistently adaptive. You always use a mace to smash, you always use a spear to stab.

8 armed powerful, near deific status, female warrior, with multiple weapons? There is a resemblance.

Yep…she sure seems to enjoy the pain and chaos she causes.

I do think Kali is much more likely and a much closer fit.

1 Like
#68

These are my views on the whole Variax situation. As a whole, I don’t think the fact that Variax itself is the problem, as it’s effect is meant for the late game. The major complaint here is regarding the rampage of playing Variax, and even then I don’t think that it is broken for several reasons.

1.) I look at Variax the same way I look at Spectral Revannent. They are both 7 mana legendaries with powerful effects meant to end the game quicker.

2.) Ramping out Variax requires two cards, which to many may not seem like a lot, but considering that most of the time she will be played on turn 3/at 5 mana means that she won’t be doing a lot of other stuff. Furthermore, this is also the reason many people see Variax as weaker in Cassyva, as their isn’t much to benefit from Variax in the early to mid game.

3.) Going off of the latter, the Awesome BBS costs 3, so in many cases you may find your opponent to only be able to play their BBS.

4.) Shadow creep tiles and furious wraithlings are dispellable. If you’re running into a lot of ramp Lillithes/Abyssian, just tech in x2 Lightbender or some other forms of dispel.

5.) Large minions are meant to have a powerful impact on the game, because they’re built to end the game quicker (hence Duelyst’s advertised ‘lightning-paced’ games). Ramping out Variax is strong, but its also strong to ramp out Spectral Revannent, Pandora, Meltdown, Silithar Elder, Dark Nemesis, and a lot of other high +7 mana costing minions that Abyssian, Magmar, and Vanar to an extent (with Crystal Wisps) can do. Where are the nerf threads for those game-ending minions? Is it because the value of Pandora’s wolves isn’t on the same level of Variax’s effect (which REQUIRES you to use your 3 MANA bloodborne spell). Or does the randomness of Meltdown’s chance to deal 7 damage to a crucial enemy unit not worth enough? Maybe summoning Silithar Elder as early as turn 1 isn’t as strong as Variax. Please, if your going to talk about of 1 late game card, you should be prepared to state why it is better or different than the other late game, rampable cards that Duelyst has to offer.

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#69

I love Abyssian, but this card is ridiculous.
Permanent buff on general.
Destroying Variax dont cancel it.
You cannot dispel the enemy general.

Kind of a joke… but not fun ¬¬

#70

Sorry if I got some details wrong. I did not mean to offend anyone with this. I genuinely am not very familiar with Hindu culture and this is just from Google research.

#71

Nah, totally not offended, no worries. Bemused would be the better word. I never expected a connection to Hinduism in a Duelyst context, atleast not in such a manner.

1 Like
#72

Sure:

Silithar elder: annoying but if you summon it on turn 2 it has 2 hp and mught be possible to get rid off. Need 3 specifuc cards on turn one so very rare and unrelyable.

Pandora: dispell and it’s dealt with.

Meltdown: dispell/removal and its gone

Revenant: borderline op and annoying but removal usually deals with it.

Dark nemesis: again removal / dispell…

Variax however cannot be dispelled. The body itself is neglectable compared to the effect and it’s a 7/7 (pretty strong of itself) dispelling wraithlings gives no good, if you can’t kill all of them he will just buffs them again on the next turn, it really is a waste of dispell.
Cassiva variax is somewhat ok as she needs shadow creep for it to work and you can try to prevent it. Lilithe just gets lots of free unavoidable value for no particular reason.

To make it fair the lilithe bbs should cost 5 mana and NOT buff existing wraithlings or buff them and cost 6 mana.
If you want something that has no counterplay atleast need to pay for it reasonable price.
And i’m being generous here 2 5/5 cost more than 5 mana.

3 Likes
#73

I have obviously been playing a whole different duelyst apparently, cause yall just coming in this forums again and again complaining over a card that isnt even broken. All because ur to lazy to take the time to combat it and learn to make ur decks stronger. Only until cpg gets fed up and nerfs the card so much it gets removed from the game. Same thing yall did with Kron (who might i add wasnt even broken as a 4/6 the guy basically finally let white widow and maybe in some memes even astral crusader see some play for once, finally replace existed). Yall even tried it with nimbus just because it was too hard to adapt to the card because apparently anything with the chance to snowball is “broken” and “uninteractive”. Sorry but this literally makes me sick to hear what im hoping is mature people whining like babies over a card until they get it their way and dont have to spend the time adjusting their decks and teching in some cards to counter specific archetypes containing these cards. I play Vetruvian and u dont hear me complaining about stuff like this, because its fun to see powerful late game cards and powerful combos come together to form a meta game. I dont mind if i lose to a powerful 7 mana card because my opponent ramped it out or controlled the board long enough to set it up. But i do get upset when my opponent is netdecking a basic aggro deck because all the powerful late games cards are too risky to play and dont make sense. Why do you think mid-range and aggro will always dominate card games. Ill never understand why people want to nerf their opponents cards but they never ask for a rework of their own to make it better.

4 Likes
#74

Oh, so the “need 3 specific cards on one turn” makes turn 2 elder so very rare and unreliable but suddently in abyssian it is not rare and unreliable anymore?
At least try to be somewhat objective when crying for nerfs

2 Likes
#75

I don’t think the problem here is how strong the card is. Kron, for instance, was far stronger then this card will ever be and I personally didn’t want it to be changed. But something needs to be done about Variax because of what it means to the game. I can’t see how adding an uncounterable infinite late-game value generator to a single faction isn’t a problem.

I don’t play much Abyssian this days, despite liking their overall playstyle, and I think this card is very good at pushing more controlish decks in the faction, specially for lilithe, but it gives all other control decks another glaring weakness and sets a standard for late-game threat generation that the other factions simply cannot compete with using the cards they have right now.

I don’t want Variax to be nerfed, but I think there needs to be some kind of reasonable way for other control decks to compete or deal with it.

3 Likes
#76

Then they just have to add such cards for other factions! Shouldn’t that be enough?

3 Likes
#77

Abyssian player here and I do want Variax to be nerfed.
Its kind of an out of control power creep that is very bad to the game.

Just remove the Opening Gambit text and keep the ability, so you gain the AWESOME BBS as long as Variax is alive. This way, as an Abyssian I’ll have to keep him safe, and as the opponent I got some way to deal with this BBS change.

5 Likes
#78

Please stop the complaining…get yourself 3 of them and trie it out…TRİE İT OUT!
You wouldnt complain because you would make the same experience i made…
İ lost games games with him…İ won games because of him…
When your board is weak and you Play him you will loose no matter what…before snowballing you will be lost…
İf your Opponent did not deal with your Wraithlings he is VERY strong…

The Point is that People made a few bad experiences againt Variax and start complaining…But if they Play with Abysian using him everyone would notice that it is not so easy to pull him of…

2 Likes
#79

The card needs to be nerfed not ridiculously but it does need to be toned down slightly .Moving it to probably 8 mana is fair. That means it comes regularly at 6 mana and if you have the dream hand maybe 4 or 5.

You have to look what is intent of card it is supposed to be late game power.There is no mass removal that cleanly removes the wrathlings at 6 mana(wait maybe sunset pargons).Yes the card is slow enough to where aggro decks can burst it down but Abyssinian is faction with Kelanio.

If nothing happens I am not going to be upset as mentioned it is beatable and this is early expansion and meta,people will adjust their decks and it won’t be as big of threat but a small tweak is probably needed

1 Like
#80

Because Variax is stronger than every single other late game card. If he is played, your 7 or 8 mana minions are unable to threaten abbysian. So Variax is the card that fully kills the control meta, as she is singlehandly stronger than 5 7 drops. We will never have a control meta because one card just deals with every other faction. The highest mana cost minion without an immidiate effect included in current competitive decks is ironcliff, and sometimes even it ends up being cut. The only decks that run 6 mana or above minions is abbysian. Their lategame already has obliterate and revenant to threaten all types of decks, but now swarm aggresive Lylyth list has an unbeatable card. And the reason people dont complain about pandora, nemesis and etc is because those creatures are temporary. You can answer them with removal but in variax’s case you are doomed.

The problem isnt as much in Variax’s mana cost as it is in her permanence. I would like Variax to have something like “The next two BBS you use are AWSOME”.Still very strong but now control decks have a slight chance.

4 Likes
#81

You know that even abbysian players admit that this card should be changed. Kron was stronger than other cards in his category. Even lyonar opted to change their ironcliffs with kron (even healyonar). We will never have a control meta while variax is around, as the only thing that can compete with variax is variax+furosa.

If you want you can compare this card to another late game 7-drop, rook. Are they on the same power level? I wonder why, as they both are 7 dropssarcasm. Variax is ahead of every other 7 drop exept (sometimes) spectral revenant. But revenant is temporary. You have a slight chance to recover. But Variax is permanent. She gives you the most value in the whole game of duelyst.And she is consistent. There are no other cards like that in the hole game. Thats why Variax must be changed.

3 Likes
#82

They already have. By Grandmaster Standards, Variax is pretty on par- whilst, Zendo, for example is way above the par. This doesn’t even count the other slew of goodstuff each faction gets from utility minions (Lantern Fox, Falcius, Kujata etc.) Variax does nothing but occupy the board on it’s first turn down, and then commits the Abyssian player to a 3 mana BBS. Nosh-Rak kills in the same turn, and if not threatens 4-8 on it’s own.

It’s really just a mountain of salt, but the Variax creates tension with Revenant and encourages players to build with Klaxon or Vorpal Reaver in it’s stead- opening up the number of ways an Abyssian deck can build out their Titans. Variax is just one of those sufficiently slow powerful things to do, and like Nimbus- it’s getting a bad rub for simply being a good slow card (while the power of slow cards is generally lower than it probably should be.)

3 Likes
#83

Variax effect are only effective 2 turns after “she” is dropped onto the board, and by the time variax comes down you should have at least achieved lethal or close to it, except probably 5 mana variax which is harder to deal, 3 mana variax? might as well concede and move along.

My experience facing variax lilithe (as variax cassy are pretty much nonexsistent), usually I can deal pretty much with them, as ramping variax means that you’re sacrificing board and tempo, it easily gives you more ways to burst them.

Abyssian are faction with the most obvious gameplan, and you can even see it from before the game even start. You would expect something either Swarm, DFC, Variax, and the occasional vorpal reaver, as for cassy it will be 7 mana revenant into 8 mana obliterate, unless they are way behind. Lightbender are effective for both archetype, probably will be going up in popularity.

1 Like
#84

Hey, we exist! At least I try to…

#85

I wouldnt say it is stronger than any 7 drop,A Lilthe ramp out Variax and on the same turn I ramp out an Elder. Guess who won the game.

7 variax strength isnt as 7 drop.Variax is pretty slow as well even when you ramp it out as well.It takes about three turns to get going if you kept the board clear.

I do argee changed needs to happen but you are overselling the minion,Variax strength comes that ramp it out immediately gives the effect and ramping come with little downside abyss doesnt care about wrathling being sacrificed.Not Variax is some unbeatable monster.

If Magmar could get out Elder on turn 5 consistently you would have the same type of scenario but using Magmar as example if Magmar tried to ramp out something it has come out on that turn and it takes damage when it comes out. Abyssinian ramp takes no damage and they can hold ramp for a turn. Issue might not even be Variax itself changing Darkfire sacrifice might be issue and Variax is the first minion that cards zero mana cost to being to good

1 Like
#86

I never meet cassy version of variax…

Oh wait, I think I faced variax cassy once, she only managed to generate 4 creep tile whole game, and 3 of those are filled with my general and 2 minions, whole game he just spam dissapointed emote :sweat_smile: