Frostiva vs Kron


#1

So all the Kron talk lately got my mind athinking. Is it just me, or is Frostiva feel kind of gimped compared to Kron? For those who don’t know, here’s the matchup

Inquisitor Kron
Neutral
5 mana
4/6
Provoke
Whenever you replace a card, summon a 2/2 Prisoner with a random ability nearby
Prisoners can have Provoke, Forcefield, Ranged, Rush and Frenzy.

Frostiva
Vanar
5 mana
3/3
Forcefield
Whenever this minion attacks or is attacked, summon a 3/3 Vespyr Night Howler nearby.

Now, here’s how I see the matchup

Inquisitor Kron:

Pros: Stronger body, more immediate board effect, minions have abilities, easier to summon minions
Cons: Vulnerable to Hollow Grovekeeper, requires a card to be replaced

Frostiva:

Pros: Forcefield allows better trades, stronger minion bodies, Vespyr synergy
Cons: More vulnerable to dispel, much weaker body, minions not guaranteed

Now, it might seem like they’re fairly even, but I have the view that Frostiva’s cons are much worse than Kron’s. Dispelling a Kron leaves a 4/6, which isn’t too bad for 5 mana. Dispelling Frostiva, on the other hand, leaves a 3/3 body. At the 5 mana level, a 3/3 is a joke to kill. And it’s not like dispels are even rare in this meta.

So basically, what I’m asking is, is it just me, or could Frostiva use a wee bit of love? Nothing insane, mind you, don’t go giving her wolves abilities of their own. But even bumping her up to a 3/4 seems fair, atleast to me.


#2

or nerf Kr0n x) simple as that.


#3

Your argument seems to be how they’re equally strong in power, but Frostiva suffers more from getting dispelled and as such she deserves some love. Now if that statement were factually true and made in vacuum, It would make lots of sense. But we’re talking about entirely different cards here in the actual gameplay scenario. Only two things the cards share in common is how they’re both 5 mana and they generate other units.

From what I’ve been reading and experiencing, people still didn’t experiment a lot with Frostiva and there’s no consensus on it’s power level, but I’ll say anyway how I agree it deserves a minor buff. But not because it pales in comparison to Kron but simply because the card itself has some flaws. It’s balanced in such a way where it either helps you win more or puts you too much behind when it gets dispelled. There seems to be no healthy medium there. But again, I might be wrong since there was no extensive testing done with the card afaik.


#4

Kron you can remove fairly easily with general attack +4 more damage from pretty much anywhere. Usually after this you won’t get too much further behind (unless the 2/2 is particularly BS in your situation). Kron is stronger vs dispel but because of the above I usually don’t need to dispel kron and can save it for stuff like aymara. On the other hand Frostivia is really brutal when you don’t have the answer (dispel or hard removal). If you don’t have clean way to clear or remove frostivia, the thing just poops out craptons of value and you’re completely screwed. I would rather that they didn’t buff it, Kron is actually a healthier and fairer card even with its flaws.

TBH I think forcefield is a pretty broken mechanic as things stand, thank goodness the only good popular forcefield minion right now is sunsteel defender.


#5

I agree, I think forcefield minions should have lower stats considering they can trade for free. Sunsteel defender as a 3/3 or a 4/2 could be a reasonable balance imo.


#6

Sunsteel would be unplayable as with either of those nerfs, especially with the 4/2 one. Card is actually in a perfect spot. It’s power level is in such place where it’s not used in every deck but only in certain decks which benefit from it’s forcefield mechanic. You can’t get more balanced than that. If anything, when it comes to force field minions, the Sapphire seer needs and extra stat point.


#7

O really
Looking at all of the available neutral 4 drops I dare say Sunsteel is possibly the best one.
I recently opened a smurf account after the humble bundle was announced and out of the 20 orbs I opened 2 Sunsteel Defenders.
Quickly climbing through the ranks I realised how many games the card won me alone. I never put much thought into it before this.
Forcefield isn’t the most “fair” mechanic in the game and Sunsteel also has decent stats (4 attack is enough to trade with most other 4 drops and 3 hp is enough to survive a general hit). So if you ask me I think it’s not exactly at the “perfect” spot.


Balance of Forcefield
#8

Unfortunately your personal experience with the card doesn’t say how good it actually is, especially when the said experience is in lower ranks. Sunsteel is actively played in a single deck which is midrange magmar. Sometimes it’s played in other midrange decks too but even there it’s usually outclassed by the shieldmaster or arguably dioltas. Card is definitely not an issue, even in the single deck where it’s actively played it’s not considered to be too strong.


#9

I think it’s potential is more worrisome than it’s actual use on ladder.
The card can often go 2 for 1 if not more or eat up removal. I’m not saying it’s op, only that given the nature of forcefield, it shouldn’t be as strong as it is imo.
Also while experience from the lower ranks doesn’t hold much meaning, the fact that a single card can win you the game without much skill required means that anyone can just run it and win. If that doesn’t indicate imbalance I don’t know what is.
The same issue is with Kron, with everyone running him, if you can’t answer him in time he will generate too much value for you to deal with and easily win you the game. That is especially true when faced with Kron into Kron into Kron…


#10

It in fact doesn’t indicate imbalance because like you said yourself, experience in lower ranks with the card says literally nothing about it’s power level.

It’s true how some cards are being undervalued, but Sunsteel is such a straight forward card that it would definitely be played more if it was actually as good as you say.


#11

I think the only reason it’s not played is because it competes with other faction 4 drops which are too essential for the deck type or just can’t be fit into some decks. I think if you can fit a few more 4 drops in your deck then Sunsteels are top candidates.


#12

There is plenty of flex spots in the current decks, especially in the 4 drop slots. Only factions that sometimes have issues having too many 4 mana cards there are magmar and arguably lyonar. And if Sunsteel was such God card when it comes to trading like you’re saying, it would definitely find place even in those two factions despite those issues, because that’s what good cards do. And currently it isn’t even played in typical midrange decks where it’s supposed to shine. It tells you enough about how good the card is. It is in fact good, but in order for it to find a place in more decks it needs to be better than just good. I’m done talking about this, the thread isn’t even about Sunsteel.


#13

Imo the only thing Frostiva needs to be viable is to be considered a vespyr itself. Currently whenever I play Frostiva I find myself wishing I could use Huldra or Iceblade Dryad on it, or even just draw it with Cryogenesis.


#14