I’d say gnasher should be a 3/2 for 3 with the same dying wish and the same stats for Nightsorrow, 3/2 for 3, same opening gambit.
Frostbone Naga and Gnasher, both need a Redsign where they cost 3 Mana, not 4, so they aren't in competition with Blistering Skorn post Patch! (EDIT: Nightsorrow Assassin should also be adjusted to 2/3 in comparison to these suggestions for balance.)
The title… its… evolving…
4 Likes
I don’t like changes for changes sake. The three of them are different to each other laterally. Each fulfills a different role in any given deck. Of course, skorn is the most flexible and ‘standard’ choice, but each has it’s own value.
Skorn: Friendly Fire and unlimited range;
Naga: Friendly Fire and limited range;
Gnasher: Death wish, higher damage, limited range;
I’m running Naga over skorn because I need a board clear that leaves a body but I don’t want to hurt my backline value generators.
Hi guys, how about leaving balancing the cards to ACTUAL game designers? No? Ok.
3 Likes
No. Actual game designers have yet to realise that a 5 mana 6/6 Motorboat Wiggleboss is healthy for Duelyst, because any competitive game is fuelled by salt and tears with a side of cancer.
Naga is a pretty reasonable choice in gauntlet. Even gnasher is situationally good there.
What minion is that?
Makantor Jesus. Who rose from the Lazarus Pit via a Keeper proc.
2 Likes
I agree that night sorrow should be buffed stat wise or make it 3 attack or less
Now I’m just imagining Makantor Warbeast twerking its way out of the ground.
1 Like
Yup.
I took some time and tried to make sure there wasn’t too much cheese going on here, while thinking about suggestions from other posters. Nightsorrow was added because it’s a singular, limited kill for what would be the same mana, and leaving only a 2/1 behind, it’s not really much of a buff, but as suggestions for Stat-lines became more reasonably thought out in order to ensure that early turn swarm moves weren’t too penalized, that seemed fair, in case you’re more interested in having a body out rather than potentially killing something.
Yes it’s a faction card, but the stat lines were becoming similar in range/scope for effect.
I’m not against this thread changing as people present ideas that make sense, or they inspire me to look at something from a different angle, I am however pretty sold on these cards being looked at for redesigns.
@nubirak, @galdred, @kvewgir, @savetheracoon @jernat
Hey gang, I’m going to try to address you all here rather than make a ton of posts, obviousy this mostly aimed @nubirak, but it keeps the discussion fresh and inclusive to do it this way.
These are not meant to be potential changes for the sake of just changing things.
These are balance redesign suggestions, aimed at making these cards all a bit more valuable in balance against one another AND Skorn, in order to give people a wider variety of choices and deck archetypes.
Gnasher in particular makes dying wish themed decks for Abyssian more viable for example. Meaning I don’t have to pick Swarm, or Creep only. That’s not just a change for changes sake, that gives the meta more dimensions.
Magmar Decks could absolutely use a new 3 drop Minion with removal to replace Skorn ATM. Frostbone Naga becomes appealing at 3 mana, and if it’s stat line changes, and it self-damages, now it’s not really a threat on the board, even if it hard countered a few minions early.
Nightsorrow Assassin has seen some changes already, but with a slight stat boost would be a bit more viable as a choice Vs Frostbone and Gnasher if they were changed. So if you’re not playing a Dying Wish theme Abyssian deck, maybe straight removal will be far more consistant.
Both Gnasher and Frostbone work well with the other factions too, but these are examples, and gives you perspective as to why the thread has evolved. Also, it helps prevent Inner Focus from being abused too much with Gnasher to have him as a 2/3 if he’s made a 3 Mana cast, though it could still be used effectively that way a bit more mid game, in a fair and straightforward manner.
But please don’t look at a wall of text up top, refrain from reading it, and then claim these are changes merely for the sake of changing things.
Hey,
Maybe my choice of words was a bit harsh. What I meant to say was that these cards already fill niche roles in the decks they are played (even if they are not ‘meta’ or ‘S-rank’).
I understand the need of better 3 drops. However, a buff to the mana cost could warrant nerfs in other areas of the cards and it’s hard to predict exactly what the changes would entail, specially when talking about redesigns and changes that could upset their use in the decks these cards are played.
About the proposed changes: To me, the change to Skorn means that, maybe, tempo aoe effects are too strong below 4-mana. Too much aoe has the potential of killing any deck based on minions (not only swarm) and having a steady stream of aoe damage could shape the meta in bad ways.
All in all, I’d prefer new cards to be introduced instead of changing existing ones. While the ideal would be to have every card be equally good and viable, I believe that is an impossible goal to reach, and constant meddling is worse than allowing some inequality to occur.
What do you think of changing them both to 2/3’s to address the problems you’re mentioning.
Remember neither Gnasher, nor Frostbone Naga are global AOE like Skorn was either, and if Frostbone is changed to hurt herself like Skorn at 2/3, then she becomes a 2/1 after play. That’s not a huge threat, even if she manages to be effective.
If Gnasher is 2/3 he can’t die casually to something too weak, so he’s not as likely to kill off Wraithlings or Zyx’s for examples. And he’s less likely to be abused as much with Innner Focus with Songhai.
I know we can’t predict what kinds of changes would be made, but I think the key is looking at what people here have to say, and being specific about redesigns, if we ask for something concise, and give a lot of reasoning, then maybe counterplay will at least test our ideas to see if they could work.
I do think these cards would be useful in a lot of decks this way, without being overpowering.
To be honest. If CPG reaches the conclusion that this change is warranted, I wouldn’t really mind too much. I’d be annoyed to have to update my decks, but, overall, I wouldn’t hold a grudge over one specific change. What I’m trying to convey here is that, sometimes, changing too many things can be detrimental, even if they end up balanced. Having too relearn things all the time is tiring. I can say that because me and many friends have quit League of Legends because of that.
One example: Many people have suggested that Diolta’s tombstone be made a structure that spawns on the body of Diolta’s. It is a change that makes sense on paper: it is more intuitive and prevents abuse from divine bond. However, it would also break some interesting interactions that ALSO make sense now. It is really hard to gauge how much a change will impact the variety of decks at each division.
With all this said, discussing the changes is fine, this is a forum after all:
I think the main reason people play the cards is because of the effects. I’m not sure nerfing the bodies would prevent abuse. At 3 mana, there is little opportunity to scatter minions, meaning even small AoEs are basically ‘global’.
[Edits: had left a paragraph out by mistake]
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