Duelyst Forums

Feedback from a new to Duelyst longtime T/CCG Player

#30

Well randomness will always exist in this games and all games remotely similar to it. Chess is where you want to be without randomness - but the real strategy and skill in MTG when I played(I was a PTQ grinder for a while and managed a shop for a few years - so years of experience as a TO) was from adapting to the near infinite possibilities of what could happen in a game. Mitigating randomness is important - but rolling with it and using what you’re given is just as if not more important.

As far as the exact situation - if you have NO early game plays to contest the mana orbs or beat down on the obelisks I’d just back off. Get out of range of the obelisks. Save the dispel for what he comes at you with. If you have some early game minions I’d slam them out of range of his general to try and kill on of the obelisks - and if he does end up still getting both of the mana orbs and summoning the nimbus that’s what you use your dispel on. I’m not a big fan of using dispels on obelisks early(unless they’re fireblaze, those are way more dangerous), but it can be the right play if your hand can’t handle the 2 damage a turn.

Positioning in these situations is also very important. Lets say you have a silverblade adept and play it - you could play it in a location that would make him chose between using his dervish to kill the minion OR using the dervish to get the mana orb, but not both. I’d say the number one thing newer players lack on as a skill in proper placement of minions - because it’s not something terribly common in other similar games. To a lesser extent it exists in Faeria - but building the board as you go really does limit how many places something CAN be placed and played around.

#31

Can you read mate? I don’t want your advice on my deck, nor do I care for it. My point has nothing to do with decks, nor I am I asking for advice. It has to do only and ONLY with the amount of randomness. If you still don’t understand this than imagine my deck is 30 dispels and 10 other cards and imagine I didn’t draw any dispels and give some advice based on this if that is what you would so much love to do.
edit :that is ins answe to cassador, but it pretty much answers nerohaven too, just to add randomness in itself is one thing, randomly winning on turn 2 cause your opponent didn’t draw an answer is another.
And for the third time I am not attacking the game, just suggesting that without the random win on turn 2 plays it would be better.

#32

I know you didn’t, I was just adding onto what @cassador said.

#33

But that’s the thing - he didn’t win on turn 2. You gave up to an advantage and a perceived unwinnable boardstate. I don’t know your deck so it’s possible that it was unwinnable - but nimbus does nothing if he doesn’t hit anything or get hit - and 3x dispels should be a minimum in any deck. Removal is important because threats are what win you games. In magic some decks forgo having answers because they put out so many threats so quickly - but they give up flexibility in doing so that if they stumble they may not be able to answer a major play by the opponent. If you play an inflexible deck then you will get punished for it every once in a while.

Your thoughts on randomness makes me feel like you didn’t enjoy any of the other games you listed. This game has by far the least reliance on luck than all the games you listed. Randomness is a core part of the game as a concept that makes each game unique. Yes there are crazy powerful openers but they also have solid answers and counters that could put the opponent on the backfoot. It’s far more fair than many of the MTG ‘oops I win’ decks that have the potential to draw the perfect hand and win right from the start. No game with randomness is perfect, but I’d argue that duelyst is one of the least purely luck dependent card games out there.

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#34

To add onto that, I’ve come back from 1 health when they were at 10+. And vice versa.

#35

You are correct that I didn’t enjoy the randomness in any of those games, that is why seeing it in a game I hoped didn’t have it annoyed me. However these openers are just too strong because : if you don’t draw answers then you just lose, but if you do - you don’t win, you just might get a slight advantage, or you might even still be behind.

#36

And here a bunch of people are telling you how that just isn’t true and based off your limited knowledge and experience you’re telling us we’re all wrong and putting your foot down. You’re not trying to learn or trying to get better, just trying to get something that beat you and you couldn’t outplay with you limited skill nerfed.

When I started I got beat into the GROUND by basic plays. Common cards that I’d see in other decks too(and no, I’m not saying rarity common, I mean ‘in most decks’ common). I had to learn to play around these things and ended up getting into gold in 40 wins. I wasn’t slamming these ‘broken’ openers that you complain about because slamming them down without your opponent having played a dispel yet is often a poor play - you bait out their dispel THEN hit them with your bombs. That isn’t random or luck - it’s outplaying an opponent. It’s okay to get outplayed, you just go back into the game with your new knowledge and get better. And ‘answer’ isn’t always ‘dispel or lose’, a common answer to the card most people complain about(Kron) it to just PUNCH it until it’s dead.

It really, really sounds like you need to just play chess. But be careful there - you can’t complain about the black rook being overpowered.

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#37

Please don’t flame at others and saying stuff like this:

People are just trying to help you. It might not be what you asked for but there is no need to be rude.

People ask for your deck because it is the one thing that you can adjust that affects your own randomness. If you struggle against something you normally try to adapt your deck to cope with it.

Of course there are times when your opponent gets a stronger opening. You might not get an answer instantly but fight until you do. People who fight positively will win more. Its not over until your health is zero.
Just because your opponent got lucky at the start doesn’t mean he/she will be lucky forever. Pray that your opponent starts getting bad draw :smiling_imp:
Sometimes running back is the best option. Make a turtle defense, build an army and make a comeback. Your opponent might just run out of gas.
You don’t always have to remove threats. You can put your own threats too.

Remember when you lose you got unlucky and if you win it is skill :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

#38

And you started with the personal attacks too, grats mate. Can you even consider for a moment that the game can be improved upon? Again with your assumed limited knowledge and limited skill bs : ok before I even try to reason any more with any of you, just answer me this : Is it possible or is it not possible in this game for a person more or equally skilled than his opponent to lose to his opponent the game due to not drawing answers?

#39

Personal attacks? You are unskilled. You’re new. I’m unskilled, too, in general, as I’m only a lowly Gold. You made mistakes and got punished for them and then complained that they were overpowered rather than admit you made those mistakes. That’s not a personal attack it’s a factual statement of what happened. I have been beyond civil and given you gigantic reasoning for my point of view - all of which has been met with ‘uh-uh, it’s too strong!’. I have blatantly told you that this game IS random and will reward some players more than another. In hundreds of games I’ve felt I’ve been beaten by luck alone…maybe 3 times. Variance behaves that way and with ANY amount of variance in the game it will happen. My entire point has been that much of the variance in this game can be played around and can be outplayed. I gave exact examples of how to counter the plays you listed as overpowered and how to play around them - but once more you simply said that it was too strong.

The game could absolutely be better. Every game could be improved upon. I have suggestions of my own - much like I’m sure everyone who has posted in this thread have some of their own. You’re equating my disagreement with your ideas as defending the game as perfect. I just think your ideas are shortsighted and actually offer no real suggestion outside of ‘this open was too strong and I lost, fix it. I don’t know how, but fix it.’

Let’s actually go back to your original questions to see how you want the game improved. You believe that nimbus is an auto-win, which is blatantly false. You also believed you needed to answer the obelysks immediately on turn 2, which is also simply not true. You then go on to say it is completely unable to be answered. A single 2 or 3 cost minion could stop the play. If you cannot get your hands on one and that’s a problem for your deck then it was a deck construction failure on your part. And your final point is to say you shouldn’t have to see any cards at 5 mana or less that win the game outright. Which is true - and the fact remains that no 5 mana play just wins the game outright.

And I’ll say again - it’s alright to fail. We all do. Even the best players have loses where they completely own up to the fact they misplayed or got outplayed. If you fail in how you react to a threat, or if you just fail before you even jump into the game and put out a shoddy deck that doesn’t work. The issue here is you’re demanding the game change to counteract your own failures. When the entire thread has told you the weaknesses to the cards you have issues with you refused to accept it - instead they’re too strong and must be changed. Just accept that you made a mistake in your play or deckbuilding, improve, go back at it and kick that nimbus ass.

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#40

I’d say the game accounts pretty well for the variance, just by having each season last a month. Even if you’re only playing to do all your quests, that’s up to 8 games a day. 240 games is absolutely enough for the randomness to even out. And duelyst lets you replace 1 card a turn, which is much better than any other ccg I can think of.

Randomness is a part of these games, so let’s get specific: how much randomness is too much for you? I can only speak for myself, but I think the amount of randomness is pretty good: it’s pretty much limited to card draw and token spawning.

Plus, lack of randomness kills games. I tried to play the yugioh 3ds game and decks are too consistent. It’s too easy to consistently get out the same monsters in the first few turns. Randomness means you have a new problem to solve every time, without which the game quickly becomes dull.

#41

So you still keep telling me if I have no answer to something its a problem of my deck. Yet, interestingly enough , I do have an answer in my deck, just not in my hand. Which is exactly what I have been trying to say about 5 times now, yet every time it gets ignored. I never said Nimbus or something else was OP. I said it promoted randomness since you need to have an answer in your HAND, NOT IN YOUR DECK, and you don’t draw your deck by turn three (really hope caps at least help you see and read this and thus stop make you stop bothering with my deck).

#42

Your deck is relevant because, not to sound condescending but, your hand pretty much always contains only cards from your deck. It’s less useful to say “luck” or “randomness” than it is to say “probability”. Deck building (and replacing) is how you manage that probability, so if you’re consistently finding yourself without answers in your hand, it’s likely a problem with your deck.

#43

I have a similar issue. Today I played a card but then he played another card and I didn’t have a card to counter his card so I lost. Can someone please fix this game???

#44

Yes my hand contains cards from my deck, yet as I have about four times said now not ALL cards from my deck. Thus if an opening requires me to have certain cards in MY HAND it promotes randomness since even if i have them in my deck, there is no way to ensure I have them in my Hand, and yet when I don’t - I lose , but when I do - I don’t win but I just handle it and get in an even situation. That doesn’t seem fair, logical, and it makes no sense to ME, thus I give my feedback.

#45

Then I don’t really know what you want. Solving problems with the tools you have is half the game. The other half is setting up problems your opponent can’t solve.

#46

Well I guess SOME intelligence is required to grasp my line of thought. I want openings that win unless your opponent has specific cards in his hand changed so that they can be handled without a PERFECT answer in your hand. If that is too hard for you to grasp I can’t really clarify it any more.

#47

It’s not too hard to grasp, you’re just wrong. I don’t even know your faction - but repulsor beast, lightbender, and shroud all stop it. Neutral cards. Not to mention we’ve all told you that you could have had an opening of your own that - you know - had minions that you played that do things.

And yes, my first deck DID have all three of those in it, along with other answers. The entire idea of needing ‘perfect’ answers is just silly and you’re grasping at straws.

#48

And this thread of people telling you there ARE answers. Finding those answers is half the game. I’d say anything that isn’t an otk can be answered. I don’t want to tell you to git gud, but git gud.

#49

Lol, I only started playing this because of the pixel art

I think this game shines when you get some friends and you pit custom decks against each other. Otherwise you’re just facing the same effing decks over and over in Ladder. Gauntlet is nice because it’s random, keeps your brain juices working.

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