Feedback from a new to Duelyst longtime T/CCG Player


#1

Hey guys, I recently found and started playing Duelyst due to getting annoyed at the amount of increasing randomness in other card games, I have to say you did a really good job. The game feels a lot less random and more skill-based than all other card games I have played(( MTG, HS, Faeria, Spellweaver) and it’s much harder for people to just go full aggro on you, and even if they do it actually requires a lot of decisions on their part to pull it off, so it’s fine, at least by me.
I personally don’t really like the pixel art, but it’s definitely not a problem for me, although I would enjoy a non-pixel version more. Also the game seems quite generous with drop rates which is nice too.
There are only 2 things I believe can be improved upon :
1 : Gauntlet - this just feels way too random and luck dependent compared to ranked, the way it is now.
2: Some mode to test and fine tune new decks before playing ranked.


#2

Well it is just like sealed for MTG or arena for HS, it is ok but no great compared to a proper draft mode, hopefully they implement something better in the future.

Could not agree more.


#3

They used to have a sandbox mode where you could play both sides (which certainly helps with testing a curve), but they removed it due to cost of upkeep. You can reenable it using a third party script installer, it has a couple bugs I’ve found but it’s pretty much OK (occasional visual bugs and I’ve found you can cast twin fang vs one minion when in a normal game there has to be two).

The only other hopes for testing things are (a) making friends to be practice partners and (b) future casual mode, which will come some day, but who knows when or in what form.


#4

Definitely agree.

Also I think you mean twin strike?


#5

It’s quite a bit different from limited formats in MtG.


#6

Whoops. Yep, I meant twin strike.


#7

Well I said the game "feels a lot less random and more skill-based than all other card games " but that was before I had seen some of the early game stuff decks can do, like summon 2 0/6 : summon dervish on turn 1 and a Nimbus on turn 2. That is simply beyond ordinary bs, actually even just a turn 2 nimbus is just game over unless yoou have perfect draw.


#8

Thank you for updating the thread with your most recent thoughts on the game. Nimbus certainly is strong when you give a free mana tile to your opponent so they can accel to 5 mana and obelysks are also strong when you don’t have the necessarily removal or damage on board to deal with them. Now when I think about it, there is lots of cards that are strong if they don’t get answered, something is off with the game’s balance for sure. Let’s not forget perfect draw being the strongest thing of them all, with perfect draw even a bad deck can win against a good one.

What is your proposed solution to these problems? Honestly I don’t feel qualified to even try to fix them as my CG experience is very limited :pig:


#9

The sarcasm in your post is quite obvious. Yet i will try to answer you in a civil manner :slight_smile:

  1. How do I have the necessarily removal or damage on board on turn 2 to deal with 2 0/6?
  2. There is lots of cards that are strong if they don’t get answered for sure but they are not played turn 1 and turn 2 when you have no answers for them.
  3. Perfect draw from other factions is somewhat beatable with good plays, this is ridiculously strong and completely unanswerable.
  4. My proposition is very simple - don’t create cards that can be played the first few turns(5 mana or less) that require your opponent to have removal for them in hand in order for him not to lose outright. This just creates randomness and destroys any skill requirements.

#10

Idk if you noticed, but Obelysks can’t counterattack and are really damn weak to dispell. General attack + 2-drop +primus fist for example takes out one of those already. Obelysks also only spawn 2/2s, which means they don’t get value from just one spawn. Nimbus takes a lot of time to actually do something. Getting it out turn 2 is also hella hard, y don’t you just deny them the tile? the Turtle opening is usually quite an obvious hint and easy to stop.


#11

Yeah, so if I have two dispels on turn 2 along with a way to deny the mana tile I should be just fine.


#12

Sigh, what early game drops do you usually run? What faction and deck do you run?


#13

Interesting thoughts, allow me reply back. Again, I’m not very good but I do have some of experience with this specific game at least :poodle:

  1. You don’t necessarily have to deal with it in one turn. Obelysks spawn dervishes, so them getting one spawn isn’t that big of a deal, it’s even less of a deal if they can’t play dune caster to keep it alive. You set up your board and kill it the next turn and you’ll still be in the lead. That’s implying you can’t deal with shroud or something.

  2. Flashing out a Sunsteel is a pretty strong T1 play and can easily carry the game. Azurite Lion can be bonkers as well with him being able to both trade and take tiles where usual 2 drop couldn’t. Lantern Fox can be devestating too, especially if enemy can use Inner Focus to trade it with something too. Talking of Vet, we can’t forget Pax, or got forbid, a double Pax opening. I could go on but you get the point.

  3. I think I can safely say “wrong” here without being frowned upon from not elaborating on the matter further. If you disagree I’ll gladly edit this part of the post.

  4. Honestly, such cards don’t exists. It’s possible to deal with everything, be it proactively or reactively. If a person finds themselves often in such situations from which they just can’t recover then the issue is with their deck and plays rather than with the game itself.

Also it’s quite rude to call my post sarcasm when I could have easily done the same to your post. I just figured there is some chance you were in fact serious so I made my post with that in mind. Anyway, I hope I shed some light on these things you perceive to be issues with the game. If you have any more worries let me know and I’ll gladly address them :slight_smile:


#14
  1. Sorry mate but the next turn a Numbus comes along, what do i deal with, the Obelysks , the Nimbus, the stuff the Nimbus summons?

  2. Well thank you, I hadn’t encountered some of these and they just reinforce my point, that randomly unbeatable openings exist.

  3. Again thanks for making my point for me. If others do exist they should be looked upon and nerfed.

  4. Yeah, you even neglected the card draw here, so according to you - If I can’t deal with something that I have answers in my deck which I didn’t draw, then it’s obviously completely my fault for not running 40 cards that can answer this particular card right? Perfect logic mate, card games = chess.


#15

If you’d answer my questions you might find a solution to your problem.


#16

What you don’t understand is even if I have cards to deal with this in my deck, I need to draw them or I lose, that’s why such cards should’t exist : they make winning or losing too dependent on the draw.


#17

It seems that despite your long time experience with the card games you don’t seem to have sufficient game knowledge about this specific game to make proper comments about it. I tried my best to help out but without you having the sufficient experience and gametime, nothing I say can really change your mind it seems. As such I see no point in continuing this discussion as it will lead to nowhere, it’s impossible to discuss anything really if one party isn’t fully educated on the matter which is being discussed :sweat:

In the end, I did my best. I’m willing to continue this after you play the game for long enough to be able to properly discuss it, in the mean time, there is plenty of other friendly forum goers which I’m sure will keep the thread going. Cheers and good luck :cherry_blossom:


#18

What you don’t understand is that there are plenty of ways to reinforce your early game in a way that you can deal with pretty much anything in a myriad of ways, so that you always have some solution even if its not the optimal one. There are plenty of duelyst players and we all encountered these strong openings once in a while, and there are games that are lost right of the bat, because thats the nature of a card game, which you should know, as a veteran of those. Its not like you are the enlightened one and all other duelyst players are just bad, ephemereal obelysk isn’t even a common or a particulary good card, double 2-drop openings as player 2 are just kinda strong in general.


#19

Ephemeral shroud is in the basic set, smart replacement and positioning solves a lot of problems. There’s always going to be some games where you’re losing from start to finish, but that’s the nature of the game. So is losing to people with better cards. Imo (not really high ranked, but I played yugioh and hearthstone for a while) duelyst is much better about card quality vs skill than most ccgs.


#20

Nimbus is one of the stronger cards in the faction - it’s powerful is left alone. That being said it can be dispelled very easily. I think one of the key issues you’re running into here is you’re not running enough answers. If you played MTG I’m sure you’re aware of the ‘dies to removal’ joke, and it’s very much true here. You remove it and it’s left not board impact behind - Kron is the big perpetrator there - leaving value behind regardless of if you remove him after.

Double obelisk open can be strong - but at the same time generating 6 power isn’t terribly hard that early - blowing one up and dispelling the other - or just buying time until you can blow it up are options. You also can run away - but I have to admit I love backing enemies into a corner as a Vet player.

The thing is a double obelisk open isn’t what I aim for in Vet. It’s either obelisk Pax or double Pax, which is downright degenerate. But like all bursty opens it leaves you spending a bunch of cards early and your opponent will typically keep card advantage - and they aren’t without counters. I’ve been blown out from a double pax open multiple times with AoE followup or a well placed provoker ruining my early-game face plan.

As far as a turn 2 nimbus…if you don’t contest the mana orbs MOST 5 mana plays can just run away with the game if you let them happen on turn 2. Part of the game is countering those things. If you don’t have an early game then you’re just going to be a sitting duck. Sometimes if you cannot contest the center you are better off stalling on your side and waiting for you midgame plays to catch up. If an opponent overcommits into a board you want to have cards to counter that - such as Lyonar’s holy immolation, Magmar’s warbeast, and if you’re feeling fancy Plasma Storm - which straight up demolishes Vet if they commit too heavily.

Honestly I’m trying to be civil here but reading your replies it sounds like sour grapes. Nimbus is a strong card, and double obelisk open can be a scary open but they aren’t without counters that you should be running. You can use it as a learning experience and form a counter strategy. If you opponent blows two obelisks on the turn one - if you can’t kill one you can pretty much just back up and be safe if you can’t contest the other orbs either. Then, being out of range of the obelisks you can save the dispel for the nimbus he powered through.

Hope you stick with the game and learn from the loss. I’ve absolutely had the open you described as being impossible to beat and I’ve been punished and beat after doing it.