If a 4 drop causes your opponent to give up on contesting mana tiles, run away and wait for hard removal, then the 4 drop is too good.
if it was flashed out it might get easily removed by a 4/3 3 mana minion. These might get popular.
Okay, and what if it wasn’t flashed out? Or if it was 3 mana due to Kujata? Even if it was flashed, that’s essentially their three drop trading into your two drop.
But no one in their right mind would flash this within range of a 4 attack minion, so that really isn’t a valid argument.
we are talking about a T1 flash Haruspex that gets challenged by a P2 T1 4/3…
If the Haruspex gets kept out of range of a 4/3 I think something was achieved.
The 3 mana play with Kujata is indeed decent. But that means the Kujata got to stick and the P2 T1 play was weak.
Oh my god… I just realized that Falcius would have been THE answer for the flash play
Which factions might be struggling the most with Haruspex? Lyonar? Songhai? Vetruvian?
Is something achieved still when the 4/3 is removed and the 7/4 is back in your face again? Not to mention they only spent 2 mana on the monster and have plenty of mana to play other cards. If their hand empties, they have Gaze Spikes and BBS. If they take too much damage, they have Earth Sphere Ragebinder and Finality.
And that’s only if they flash it. What can you do when they just play it on curve? Or with Kujata?
Name a single 4 drop in the game that’s as powerful and difficult to answer as this one and I’ll consider the possibility of you being right.
Here is my opinion on this card, it is OP. Even disregarding the fact that it is in a faction that can summon minions on the cheap, for a 4 drop, this card has stats that are above and beyond, even for Thunderhorn.
You would think that being able to draw a card for yourself is enough of a downside for this card’s stats, but it is not at all. How many times have I come up against Starhorn (or some other minion) where I saw that they had mill and tried to drop my hand so I could open some space for all the draw, but either it’s too early in the match to play any cards or I just have too many 4 mana or above cards in my hands? All the time, this card has practically no downside if you can even call it that because as far as I am concerned, it is an upside to try to get rid of all the good cards in your opponent’s deck.
I’m not even going to touch on flashing it or summoning it with Kujata, Funsteel was annoying enough, but that combo was a gentle massage compared to what this 4 drop is going to be.
Prepare for aggro meta is what my head is telling me, because the only way to play against this is to win first or to have such a low curve that you can dump your hand and let Millhorn refill it for you. At the very least, why did they give it so much attack?
A certain 5/6 for 3 was considered too good. 2 attack more on a 4 mana minion is now too much?
I would wait on this.
If you mean Komodo Hunter, that is a completely different card and the downside associate with that card is an actually downside, whereas for Burnhorn, it is just win/win.
And yes, +2 attack is bad, but 5/6 is already bad, keep in mind though that I am talking about this in the assumption that these are vanilla minions with no effects. Do you understand how hard it is for a lot of factions to remove that at just T1/T2 without experiencing a massive tempo loss? And even if they do so without loss, they still face a slasher next turn and then a mankator and then a buffed up Vaath.
This isn’t the first game to have an over statted minion HS has a 4 mana 7/7.Duelyst has way more removal and the positional aspects allows stat sticks like this be less effective.The card is strong people are overreacting though you have might to use hard removal on Magmar legendary four drop. Is that unfair? Well guess how Magmar players have been get rid of Thunderhorn for the last couple of months
I have seen very few people say that new Vet card versus Magmar is bs,Yet people are in screaming OP when there is a card for Vet that makes using Vaath bs once during game a set up to be OTKO. But hey lets pretend we want fair game right?
I don’t think anyone’s shouting OP at that Vet card and this thing has way bigger stats than Thunderhorn and isn’t removable by dispel, so I don’t think any of your comparisons are fair or correct.
Giving your enemy free minions to bodyblock with/buff/contest tiles with =/= giving them a few cards. Besides, using face and taking 7 hurts a lot more than taking 5
Can you respond to flash Haruspex and not mill a card?
Like 6/6 in hand. Any hand damage replaces itself.
Double 2 drop or mill?
Well the vet card is not OP, it is just a good answer to vaath (and vet really need it, becuase vaath shit on them with plasma storm, rebuke, and natural selection).
Against other factions that mantain 2 attack on general this card is ok at best.
And yes i want a fair game, and there is no way to remove turn 2 7/4 that mills your cards and face and you lose alot of tempo.
Given that you will stick three of it + decimus and more suprises well let’s just say that if the expansion will not give us good tools to handle it - people will riot for it to get nerfed and it will at the end.
It doesn’t matter if stats are bigger than thunderhorn,You have to use hard removal on a 4 drop to remove it like Magmar has to do with a neutral card. The fact no one is scream OP at the new Vet legend is the issue. If you are interested in the game being “fair” then a card punish a general for using its bbs once during a game is bs. And Honestly I don’t care about Vet legend I can adapt but players want bring out their pitchforks over this but ignore that i think that is nonsense.If you want a “fair” game players just can’t ignore these things.
Overstat minions with a drawback isn’t a new thing
Deep Slumber Titan
4 mana 7/7
4 mana 7/7
[Dusk Road] Monolith Guardian
Removing cards and killing a player are two different things.The fact that people pretend that cards getting removed is in the same class as being killed for playing or card or using your bbs is silly.You can come back from losing your board,You can’t come back from dead.
I remember in HS when 4 7/7s (with a downside of locking two of your mana for the next turn) were used by face shamans to plunder the ladder with 5 minutes matches and an overwhelming win rate. Of course it wasn’t the only good thing in the deck, but the downside wasn’t enough to stop it from being extremely strong if not answered straight away. This looks even better, and Magmar has plenty of great tools to threaten the board constantly. A minion on steroid like haruspex will get out of hand really fast.
RIP my hopes for another balanced meta
They must have nerf that card right? Yeah I already know the answer. Is the card still played? I know the answer to that as well.Both answer are No. I will say I don’t know if the card has enough of draw back but Duelyst has way more removal than Hs and board aspect allows you to avoid bigger minions as well. All I am saying we have game with similar mechanics and history of making the same balance changes to similar cards and 4 7/7 isnt in decks.Something to think about
I’m going to withhold judgement until we see the rest of the expansion…
Now I like to throw sticks at the lizard people as much as the next guy, but on its own, I’m not that scared of this little guy.
For 4 mana, you essentially get a Hailstone Golem with +3 attack that draws your opponent a card when it gets hurt. So you are essentially giving your opponent a card to deal 3 extra damage every thine this wants to swing. Sure, you can get in a lot more damage, but your opponent also gets more opportunities to out tempo you with the extra draw, or draw into removal.
If you flash this, you essentially give put yourself at least three cards behind to get a 2 mana 7/4. Is that worth it? Maybe. But not in any deck trying to play the long game. Compare this with Flashing a Sunsteel: the durability of forcefield is probably better than the 3 attack and Sunsteel has no downside. I’m actually a little scared about playing this guy against Songhai, Abyssian, and Vet decks. Abyssian has many pings and can run small minions into it. Songhai spell decks can use this guy to cycle and get some spell procs. Vetruvian Dervish/Obelysk decks can use this to refill.
What I am worried about, though is the fact that this card is 4 mana. Usually, game winning huge threats with downsides are either 5 mana (Second Sun, Hamon Blademaster) or 3 mana (Komodo Hunter) and a lot less big. This occupied that awkward in between spot and can either become an undercosted game ended, or an overpriced tempo push.
Furthermore, if any deck manages to make that ability an upside, I will be very concerned. Starhorn with Decimus might want this, and yeah, this seems really damn good in that deck. But I’m not convinced that Vaath can slide this in to their midranged shells.
Another thing to note is that Duelyst players are really really bad at judging how valuable card draw is. When circulus was revealed, no one even batted an eye, but it turned out to be insanely good. Similarly, people freaked out about Seismoid, but it didn’t really do much once released. This is a card that can realistically give your opponent two cards just for trading with it. Maybe that’s a good thing for starhorn, but I don’t think Vaath would be too keen on that…
Because Zirix and Lilithe don’t get punished by Thunderhorn for using their BBS? Reva doesn’t get punished by ping?
Overstatted minions with drawbacks are fine… but the drawback is extremely minor, AND can be used to Magmar’s advantage.