Emerald Rejuvinator?


#1

Hey there people. Currently I am building a control-Sajj deck and I’ve noticed that while I can generally clear most things that are throw my way, by the time my foe starts topdecking and I manage to get control over the battlefield and close in for the win, my health is so low I can be killed by a lucky 2 cards burst.

I’ve been considering heal options I could add to my Aymaras and Mystics, and while at first I saw Rejuvinator with scepticism due to average stats and symmetrical healing, I noticed that I have a place in my deck for more 4 drops, and by the time I reach the end-game I can drop the enemy’s health very fast, specially if I am capable of going all-in without dying.

So, should I craft it or not?


#2

Just plain NO. NEVER heal your opponent. Get Mystics or Day Watcher or anything else.


#3

That’s a bad generalization. If you usually benefit more from heals than your opponent, it’s not a bad thing to use such symmetrical effect. Some pre-expansion Sabosajj decks did use the card after all. However, there’s just better options to go for now. Not necessarily in form of heals, just better cards all around. But if you really want a high quality 4 drop which can also be considered some form of indirect heal, your best bet is either Shieldmaster or Dioltas. I guess Purgatos is also worth experimenting with but I wouldn’t count on it.


#4

Now, I don’t think this applies to my deck, at least from what I saw in Silver and Gold. If I can get control over the board and keep hand advantage (which is generally not hard against most factions, due to decent cycling and draw options and good removal) I can lower enemy health without many worries, no matter if they have 12 or 22. What generally goes wrong is that by this time I have 9 health or less, and topdecked last-second burst wrecks me.


#5

emerald rejuvinator need a buff man, its just too bad of a 4 drop for something that has situational situations where you’d play it. hell im not even sure old emerald rejuv would be the best 4 drop in the game, as its still loses out to diolatas (the queen of 4 drops) alongside sunsteel defender

i think it could be a 3/5 heals your general for 3 hp and be a fine card. competes directly with primus in the defense situation, but gives you instant hp vs ehp that can be removed in a variety of ways.


#6

Emerald Rejuvenator is bad because it has a lot less stats than it ought to. It’s simply bad card design.

As a heal BOTH Generals card, it ought to be a 4/6 instead.


#7

Cards that have symmetrical effects aren’t supposed to have the same stats as vanilla versions. Just because the effect is the same for both parties doesn’t mean the both benefit from the effect equally. You wouldn’t put such card in your deck unless it did more for you than the enemy.

I guess you could argue against that with using Blazehound as an example but vanilla 3 mana card already has shit stats and it should really be 3/4 instead.


#8

I’ve seen some Zir’an decks run it. Well… let’s say I’ve seen some Zir’an decks.
Combo’d with minion that triggers on heal effect it’s scary as shit. Yes you get healed but you now have a 4-6 atq general fully healed to go against. You better hope you kept a silence to handle it.
Worth to mention that Sunriser completely negates the rejuvanator heal which makes a '4/4 heal yourself for 4’
Assuming you combo it ofc.
It’s not straight up bad, it’s just nich af


#9

Well, Purgatos is quite nice iMO, it else kills off your opponent or heals you. RNG, sure, but in any case it’ll directly benefit you.


#10

It depends on the symmetrical effect.

This particular symmetrical effect has very flat situational dependence, way too flat to justify reduced stats. In Duelyst, out-of-hand is out-of-control and there is no true control. Health pressure is critical even to “slow” decks. Variance between decks on how important that health pressure is is simply not high enough on the “slow” end. Blistering Skorn’s symmetrical effect justifies reduced stats, because its symmetrical effect has much higher potential for lopsided gains despite the effect being symmetrical. Blazehound and Emerald Rejuvenator’s symmetrical effects don’t. That’s why Emerald Rejuvenator is bad design.

Not that cards with crap reduced stats may not still be usable if your deck has truckloads of fringe synergies, but truckloads of fringe synergies ought to make cards awesome, not playable. It’s still bad design to have 2/3 Blazehounds on the grounds that “it can still be decent in some Lack-o’-Visionar Starhorn decks.”


#11

I don’t know about health pressure being crucial to all decks, since very often my opponent has twice as much health as I when I finally enter in a position to close them in and go for the kill.

In this case the extra health from ER would be an insurence against enemy burst, and I don’t think the extra health on their side would mean that much when I’ve got control over the battlefield.

Not that it matters, since I decided to stay with Shieldmaster for now in order to save spirit.


#12

I’d still strongly advise against crafting a rare, espcially a not staple rare. I did, I felt bad for it xD


#13

Well, you’ll at least get closer to getting L’Kian like this.


#14

well it still hurts


#15

There are some situations where you can effectively “gain control” for certain matchups, for example, Vaath with 3x Earth Sphere vs. Suicide Faice and you draw your Earth Spheres, but that doesn’t mean health pressure isn’t critical to the Vaath deck. The use case average makes it a critical consideration to the deck even if it may not matter for particular use cases.

How often can you sit at half your opponent’s health and go, well, now it doesn’t matter how long it takes me to kill her, 'cause I have control? Very often you say? I don’t think so. It’s not very often that you aren’t under threat of some uninterruptible kill shot if you give them more time.


#16

The point is that I also often need more health, so I can go all-in instead of worrying if I am going to be killed by a topdecked Spiral Technique. Keeping one’s health on the safe level should benefit more the player who has been trading health for board control than the one who has nothing but a general and a couple cards in hand.

But that doens’t really matter, I’ve already settled on Primus Shieldmaster for the slot.


#17

A complete list of the deck would help a lot at giving advice.

that being said: i dont think emerald is that bad in that scenario, since you want to get to the late game after all. i think is a common problem for sajj, but ultimatetly it can be because you lack other cards, or simply because you are not managing your resources well.

Emerald, i think, isnt a bad card, but yeah, it directly loses to the other 4 big dudes. On paper, healing your opponent isnt that bad, since you heal him/she by 4, but by playing a unit that can do 4 damage in return. So its techinally like healing you by 4 and your opponent by 0.

Technically


#18

There are far worse cards to spend 100 soul on than Emerald Rejuvenator. But as someone who plays Sajj (and especially loves Control Sajj)- it’s a finnicky numbers game. As a singleton, the Rejuvenator won’t come up often, but saving it in aggressive matchups will help you turn things around. Double Rejuvenator is solid, but the opportunity cost tends to reveal itself more- where you could be playing Saon, some tech or Dioltas to slow your opponent’s damage output down. At 3, you’ll tend to draw out the game in a way that some opponents will just reposition themself, and deploy a Jammer or some other means of building cardflow.

If played with other tools to mitigate damage (Falcius, Mystics, Healers, Grove Lions), your health will go much further, but the slots may be better spent with tools that win the topdeck war. So unfortunately, it all comes down to the context of the deck you’re playing, if and how many Rejuvenators would be appropriate.

If you provide a decklist, I’m sure that we could help you figure out how to stretch those precious points of health, so that you don’t have to get your face melted. But, bare in mind, that burst weakness is just a trait of Vetruvian as a faction- so it may just to be an angle that you have to tolerate and work around with careful positioning.

EDIT: One important thing to understand about Rejuvenator is that 4 ATK is a very nice thing to have, so if it compliments the rest of your threats, it could be absolutely solid. But if it fights with your other threats, it may lead to inefficient trades.


#19

Thanks for the solid and well-thought posts. I won’t post my decklist currently because I am still tweeking it a lot, and will have plenty of time to think due to spending all my spirit recently in order to build a meme-deck for when I get bored, so I consider this discussion closed by now.


#20

The point’s been already addressed. As I’ve said, the problem isn’t that there isn’t any deck/situation dependent variance (obviously there is for everything, even basic attributes), but that the variance is too flat for the likes of Blazehound and Emerald Rejuvenator’s effects to justify the stat reduction. The bad design is in the tuning.

The amount of artificial synergy one needs to stuff in just to make a 2/3 Blazehound or 4/4 Emerald Rejuvenator have even playable use case averages is pretty extreme. Even for decks which benefit from heals well above average it’s extremely difficult to justify the card’s inclusion without artificially specific means like Sunriser/Sunforge Lancer or Lack-o’-Visionar, simply because the card is tuned so poorly.

It’s so badly tuned that even for decks which want extra health well above average, it’s extremely difficult to justify running Emerald Rejuvenator over options which simply aren’t undertuned. That’s the hallmark of bad tuning, an extra health card that even decks which want extra health find extremely difficult to justify its inclusion over other non-extra health cards, simply because it’s so badly tuned, even cards which fit worse have better use case averages in its place despite the worse fit, by the mere virtue of not being undertuned in all but the most artificially extreme cases.