Duelyst Patch 1.83 – Duelyst


#82

Yeah that’s sort of how my mind works :smiley:


#83

Excellent patch. Not exactly what I would do, but I’m me, last I checked. One of the things I was starting to dislike most about this otherwise excellent game is the ability to negate the actions of the other player completely and without consequence for a trivial expenditure of resources. There should be some swingy cards, sure, but the degree of swing enabled by some cards in this game was ridiculously excessive (Still is a bit, I think, but heading in a more fun direction). Enfeeble was just silly, and Vanar is possibly my favorite faction, control my favorite style (in addition to anything that might be reasonable called “shenanigans”).

Card-by-card:

Enfeeble:
Good. Just good. I can imagine a bunch of other ways to change it that might have been better, or worse, pending actual playtesting. But, that’s probably the most minimal effective happy-making change.

Kelaino:
Seems a tad harsh. When considering healthy nerfs to cards, Kelaino did come to mind, but I thought it’d end up a 2/4. Still, 4 mana heal 2-8ish, and eat valuable removal / prevent that Thumping Wave / Tiger / Chromatic Cold from going face - Will still be played, I think. Will likely see more shadowdancer, though, and Cass will no longer be able to steal the lunch money from midrange / slower aggro decks.

Thumping Wave: Awwww yeeeaaaaa. No more tiger + double thumping for half your health in one turn on no board. It SUCKS being ahead on board, life, cards, AND being out of reach of their general / anything currently on the board, and still lose.

Flash Reincarnation: Needed. I’ve not been big into CCG’s before, but I can see how uncontrolled ramp would end up making any game hard to design for, and less fun to play, assuming that the power difference between on-curve plays and ramped plays is significant. Theoretically, this card would be less problematic in a context where you’re actually sacrificing significant card advantage to get out the ramped minion. It’s a high-risk, high-reward play that would feel fair. But, with so many ways to easily refill your hand, and the tiny hand size in this game, that wasn’t an issue.

Side note: I’m sad for that. I liked winning on card advantage, efficient plays, and good resource management, which is all but eliminated with all the instant-draw effects currently present. I wish all the draw cards were more on par with Spelljammer or Sojourner. Oath and Spikes make winning with good hand-management no longer a thing.

Chrysalis Burst: Good riddance to bad rubbish. Sure, it was a “fun” play, put in my RNGesus IDGAF decks, but it’s infuriating to lose to this BS because they got good minions in good spots, and I don’t have a board-affecting AOE in my hand. It’s often enough not even very tempo-negative, since you often end up spending crazy resources and sacrificing any positioning advantage to deal with the scarier minions, if you even can. And they still will end up with 1-2 minions on board. I hated this card. It has a degree of inconsistency and swing potential rivaled only by Grimes and RNGeaper of the 9. Also cards I’d be happier if they were deleted from the game.

Windblade: Feels fair, but odd. Still good. Not much else to say. I like it, overall. Much like Lyonar.

Nosh-Rak: Also a bit confusing. Still, it’s not all bad - There are edge cases where the 8 hp would matter, which I have come across. But not too many. Still, I kind of like the trend of pushing powerful finishers to a mana later (Embla is 8, Spiral is 8, Meltdown is now 8, Elucidator + Thumping is now 8)

Meltdown: Good change. I still fundamentally dislike the design of the card. I don’t even mind random effects, per se, this one is just simultaneously boring and powerful. Random damage. Ah, well.


#84

Oh my god, this joke is international! Unbelievable)


#85

well lets break it down so it’s easier to understand for everyone else who doesnt use abyssian,

shadow dancer works for lilithe better than cassyva since cassyva doesnt use wraithlings period.
Cassyva relies on abyssal juggernaught and ultimately klaxon to stall to our late game which means shadow sister is the only thing that gives cassyva a fighting chance to survive since vaath usually takes out most of our health before then.

Void pulse only heals you for 3 health, and deals 2 damage to enemy general as compared to 8 health from earth sphere so there really is no comparison between those health spells since earth sphere is entirely better no questions asked. Nobody in there right mind wants to use void pulse as compared to shadow sister when vaath is tanking like usual every match and staying close to our general. vaath can just easily regain more health easier even after taking spec rev or klaxon damage and end game after earth sphere is played even after taking the 2 damage from void pulse.

shadow dancer is not the main source of health for cassyva and never will be the primary heal. if we are comparing shadow sister to shadow dancer then why dont we just give them the same stats and mana cost instead of making it a 3/3? Cassyva needs the pings from the shadow creep which it sometimes gets since obviously nobody just stands on shadow creep for fun. Cassyva doesnt sacrifice minions so willy nilly as lilithe and her minions actually matter since they cant just be sacrificed for health to make it to our late game. if her primary source of healing is gone (shadow sister) than she is just simply null and void against vaath since he can just heal up even after spec revenant is played. its too hard to take out high damage minions with cassyvas minions as you rely on them to block your general (abyssal jugg is our only high powered minion) for mana cost without having to sacrifice them into vaath’s minions on your own turn.

Cassyva doesnt darkfire sacrifice really so we dont rely on flash reincarnation like vaath but still need the healing to get by otherwise we simply roll over and die everytime they play flash reincarnation makantor into our shadow sister or LAVASLAHER. Many of us crafted the rare cards for a reason to get this shadow sister because she is a staple for cassyva.

Point made, there is clearly a problem that we are allowing shadow sister to not even last more than a single turn and our minions are simply sacrificed for no real long term value that allow us to reach our late game ever. Also making any cassyva deck crafted a waste of dust if we have to rely on void pulse to get to our late game

Also about the vetruvian empire you’re seeing lots of golems and obelysk vets because blast is no longer worthy of being crafted, that is a special ability of vetruvian that should be capitalized on since it can help against swarm abyssians which are a main problem for many decks, embla vanars that rely on circulus, and also vaath flash golem decks and has become clearly a build you won’t see much anymore in the higher tiers even though it is what makes vetruvian special to play as since it is underpowered with the noshrak nerf


#86

While I will admit that lavaslasher not being nerfed was unfair, the nerf to kelaino was needed. Bringing her down to 3 health though, that seems rash. By saying that no one would use void pulse you’re showing that kelaino in her current state is powerful, which is the issue.

While cassyva might have less healing from kelaino, the difference is that cass’ abilities, unlike lilithe’s, allow for instant value. Creep procs at the end of your turn and her bbs deals instant damage, whereas wraithlings will need to wait till the next turn to attack.

Personally, I would’ve liked a 1/4 kelaino, as her attack shouldn’t really matter, but oh well.


#87

i wouldve prefered a 1/4 shadow sister instead as well but a 3/3, we dont exactly get as much ping with shadow sister to make her worth her while on one turn. Earth sphere is instant.

Void pulse is a weak spell that’s why nobody uses it as their primary heal. Not lilithe or cassyva because it requires two void pulses back to back to be the same value as earth sphere, cassyva has no high value minions and relies on abyssal crawler 2/1 ooz 3/3 and jugg 3/3 to do the job until late game, adamantite claws is still a problem for cassyva as well as drogon since we cant ping the enemy general and generally rely on our late game and shadow creep to help us deal damage or heal. We can’t be another spell reva and run around the map the entire game with silhouette tracers till obliterate comes up otherwise the game is just boring for us.

The point i’m trying to make is that cassyva shouldn’t have to be something other than cassyva, we take lots of damage from vaath and our bbs doesnt take out those large body minions anyways without a punish in hand. If you want us to play more like vaath it will never work out unless you rework all of our cards, we need to play defensively till our late game and shadow sister helped us with that, by making our trump card so measily you’ve completely burned out abyssian because we can’t cast a cheap spell like trinity oath to get 3 cards in hand or a 3 mana tectonic spikes spell to draw 3 cards in hand to look for healing, nooooo we have to cast a 6 mana spell to fill up our hand and have not enough to do anything significant same turn

If we check S-Rank we don’t see many cassyva players because they barely survive even with shadow sister on board, it’s a much needed minion that helps us keep going otherwise we burn out casting spells with no draw power since rite of the undervault was nerfed long ago


#88

I realise our community is secretly filled with people who can both develop a perfect android model in no time and read the minds of CPG in regards to their future design choices. Bravo


#89

kelaino will still be just as good in a lot of cases. now you just don’t instanly win if your opponent has only damage-based removal though


#90

Trinity Oath getting away with murder yet again.


#91

It’s also convenient how you didn’t included RageBinder either in your “Vaath sphere is the ONLY in-faction heal” too.

Not only does it have a great body but rebirth too. Sure people will be like “oh but you need a golem on the field” etc.

Ragebinder is fine because you build a deck around it - Golems
What does cass build her deck around? shadow creep
WHOA what does magmar build his deck around for earth sphere? - Nothing, its just gain 8 health ok

Lets look at other faction heals
Lyonar- Top tier healing cards, its the faction
Songhai One healing card, Four Winds - (Needs to use spells for effect)
Vetruvian- One healing general card, Aymara healer (opponent can remove it(and the heal))
Abyssian- 5 healing cards
Void pulse- takes a card in the deck and is only 2 in healing.
Aphotic drain- This card isn’t good at all. (requires one of YOUR minions to use) Already a conditional heal.
Spectral Blade- You already need to trade into something when using this artifact so how is it going to heal you for anything more 1 or 2 most of time.
Vanar- Nothing

Ah yes you think I’m forgetting another card called Bounded lifeforce.
That’s because it isn’t a “heal” and you’re right, it’s “not as good”

There are tons of cards right now that have the saying “Answer this or you lose the game” - why are you bashing on sister? What about circulus? Don’t have an answer for it? - lose the game

I’m not picking sides, just some things to point out


#92

I just wish the appropriate kelaino nerf were bundled with a compensation, say, a night fiend buff. Kelaino was stale, but Cassy seems in trouble now.


#93

The mention of circulus is irrelevant, because it’s already being complained about, and wasn’t mentioned in the patch. Also, you’re completely ignoring the obvious drawback with earth heal, which is that it doesn’t provide a body.

Furthermore, you complain about magmar, then say nothing about lyonar, despite the fact that sundrop elixir costs 1 mana and can be used on anything. Being the faction for it doesn’t give any justification whatsoever.

Finally, the mitigation of damage is just as useful as healing, especially when looking to control the board. Spectral blade was a popular card before, and it punishes early minions quite well, but the prevalence of out of hand damage has led to it being ditched.

Also, what are these “answer or lose” cards you mention?


#94

^ [quote=“emrys321, post:91, topic:9447”]
I’m not picking sides, just some things to point out
[/quote]

Ok why does Songhai get ranged minions?
Why does Vanar get good removal spells and no healing?
Why don’t all the factions have +3 health and draw 3 cards hmmm beats me, idk


#95

Glad to see kelaino nerfed after seeing nothing but Kelaino’s today.


#96

It’s called unjust whining, the community seems to have a propensity for doing that a lot, especially without shame or remorse and when they are in no place to do so. I feel you man.


#97

Try not to get numbers wrong.

Heals 3, also inflicts 2 damage. 5 health shift. Very efficient for 1 mana. Main problem is it burns cards.

No such card. There is however Trinity Oath, heal 2 and draw 3 cards.

Abyssian also has Nightshroud for heal though it is situational and for arcanyst decks only.

I also won’t call Kelaino an answer or die card. It gives a nice advantage. However it doesn’t win a game next turn like a huge Excelsious. Doesn’t save you from huge burst either.


#98

It’s 3 but we all make mistakes as you showed, lol

Yes i forgot to included nightshroud, again though - is conditional healing

I agree with this ^


#99

Hey! :slight_smile: Some thoughts on the nerfs

Enfeeble-
I think like most players agree that this is a nice change. It makes it harder for Disruption Vanar to continue to deny the board . It’s still a good card, it still allows Vanar to deny the board but at a greater cost. Decentincizes more minion based Vanar decks from using it as a reset button when they’re losing so that’s really nice. Interestingly it now competes with Frostburn for the 5 slot, Vanar can play slow but I’m not sure if they’re slow enough to run 6 copies of a 5 cost AOE. Definitely a reasonable change that leaves the archetype it was intended for very much intact.

Kelaino-
This changes things up for Abyssian. Now Kelaino dies to Tiger, Holy Immo, Makantor, Falcius, pretty much most forms of removal. It’s still a good card but now relies more on setting up a board and a hand to take advantage of rather than letting it sit around and heal. Makes playing tempo and board focused strategies into Cassyva much easier. I think Kelaino still sees play but I’m not a good Cassyva player so I don’t know for certain. Curious to see how this affects Cassyva, for once she’s not in the meta and this really does hurt the deck so I’m a bit concerned how that archetype will fare.

Thumping Wave-
I think most players saw this coming. Thumping Wave has been the crux of every Midrange and Aggro Magmar since its release, and still probably remains that way. But despite that the mana increase brings some interesting consequences. Magmar can’t combo Makantor and Thumping Wave anymore which makes it harder for them to smash you down with rush minions without the rare Elucidator. Also Thumping Wave now moves from Magmar’s mostly barren 3 drops to their heavily saturated 4 drop pool. I do think that Ragebinder is going to replace that slot but I think something is getting cut the 4 drop. Midrange Magmar probably still top tier but expect some minor changes to the deck.

Flash Reincarnation-
Yay no more turn two Juggernauts! Really what the change comes down to. It preserves the cards midrange power but stops the crazy situations from happening. Somewhere inside me I’m a little sad that the janky flash Kymera nonsense is gone, but the rest of me is glad that I don’t have to worry about Flash Juggernaut again.

Chrysalis Burst-
I think this card is dead in the water. At 4 it came out earlier than most AOEs and before the board was developed. 6 is too late and too much investment for such an unreliable card. But like the devs said it does free up design space by letting the devs print cheap egg hatchers, something they couldn’t do because of the random eggs produced. I just hope they do make good on it unlike Blizzard with Blade Flurry.

Windblade Adept-
Tempo Argeon has been the best defacto deck since roughly I think after the Sognhai nerfs around Shim’Zar? Windblade Adept is a major factor in that and probably still is. It’s still a great card and probably used in every single variant of Lynor but makes other two drop option like Fizz and Sun Wisp seem a bit more appealing.

Grandmaster Nosh- Rak-
I’m a Vet main and Nosh was a card I ran at 3 for most of my Vet decks. But honestly I don’t really mind this nerf, in some ways I think it’s justified. Nosh was a very do or die card that stole games if you let Vet get on the board even a little bit. But despite the nerf I still think it sees play, even though it comes out later it still a good finisher card for the slower board focused decks.

Meltdown-
The king is dead. At 8 mana it needs to be played at 9 too have an immediate effect which is far too slow or most decks. The only deck I can think off that can afford to run a card this slow is Disruption Faie and even then I have my doubts if it’s worth it. The stat change and the damage change aren’t that big of a deal as you don’t play Meltdown for the stats and the difference between 7-6 isn’t that big. But still the card probably won’t see play outside of maybe disruption Vanar?

Extra thoughts-
One interesting thing to note is that no AB cards got nerfed even the ones that seem a tad overtuned. I think that either not enough testing has gone through for the devs to come to a proper conclusion or they want to give us some time with these cards.

Also ,sweeping as these changes are, I’m a little hesitant to say how much of an impact they will have on the meta. According to pros the strongest decks are Midrange Magmar and Arcanyst Faie. Magmar got a crucial card nerfed but still very much intact and Arcanyst Faie didn’t get changed much at all. So I’m not exactly sure just how much the meta will change, there’s definitely an opportunity for more decks to come out but I don’t think the meta changes all that much.


#100

You mean ‘disincentivizes?’

:3


#101

Something like that XD English is hard :stuck_out_tongue: