Duelyst Forums

Duelyst Patch 1.76 – Duelyst

#83

I never said it was dying, but I see plenty of evidence to show it is smaller than it was a month ago, and none to support the contention that it is growing.

I still recommend the game (heck, tried to get my wife to switch from HS just this morning!) And I support the game financially (more than I should) and by streaming (also more than I should). But I am not going to lie to people to get them to join up.

My “do 150 damage to enemy generals” quest took over 90 minutes last night because even though that sounds like 6 wins, it isn’t, and with a 50% win rate it took me about 10 or 12 games. Part of this is because I was not playing aggro decks, and so people would concede with far less than 25 damage done, or beat me before I could do much damage. I will be replacing that quest every time I see it from now on.

As a newbie, it would be a major turnoff.

#84

Yeah that might be a quest to replace indeed…

I wasn’t trying to imply you said it was dying by the way, it’s just that I have seen that being shouted around a lot when there’s no benefit whatsoever from spreading those rumors. Au contraire, they can hurt the game, even if only a little.
I think it’s weird that people are so quick to judge and voice their opinion which is often based on so little fact and postulate stuff as if it were a fact.

It’s like people want a negative self-fulfilling prophecy… let’s at least make it a positive self-fulfilling prophecy instead please, if you simply have to voice it (or, you know, just don’t assume stuff).

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#85

Fair enough.

FWIW, I never ever tell people the game is dying. I don’t talk about its size at all (which I think is a concern, but is still decent.) I just try to talk about how good the game is.

But I am frustrated that CPG keeps making moves that make their own game harder to sell.

#86

Is it such a big deal?? For me the 50G took perhaps 45 min to an hour…its ok…when you did two faction quests back in the days (the day before yesterday:grin:) it took 8 games to earn 50G…roughly the same amount of time…the 15G per 2W was changed to 3W i was first sad but now i realized that it is now unlimited…not bad imo

#87

I am not so sure anymore. I dug a bit into the history of CPG and the development of Duelyst and found one screwup after another that pissed people off, generated tons of bad PR and drove players away from the game. It started on Kickstarter with promising a pay-to-play model and then months after reaching their funding goal doing a 180 and turning it into a F2P game, nerfing the welcome back quest, stealth nerfing the drop rate for Shim’zar orbs without disclosing that to customers who preordered and now nerfing the gold earnings again while trying to polish that turd and selling it as something positive. If there had been one isolated issue I could except that as a one time mistake but all these problems consistently point into the same direction - a direction that makes this game worse with little regard for the players and the clear goal of maximising profit over everything else. Sad, bigly sad. And also shortsighted jeopardising the long term success for that.

All publicly available data paints exactly the opposite picture.

#88

I personally earn more than i did before, since i usually only did my quests anyways, since i often don’t have much more time than that hour or so it takes and i also feel burnt after a few games. I gain 30 gold more for my quests, and aussming that i average a 50% winrate i got 30 gold from 8 games before the change and now get 20 gold from those 8 games, meaning that i get +20 Gold, And yeah the point where the fact that you get 15 gold for all wins instead of for the first 14 ones breaks even is pretty damn late, considering that the old wins were worth 7,5 gold before 14 wins and 2,5 after you break even 28 wins and get more with the new system at 29 wins, assuming a 50% winrate again thats 58 games which is somewhere at 10 hours of gameplay, so yeah, only hardcore grinders will really benefit from that (and honestly, at that point you might as well get yourself a job and spend some of the money earned on dueyst).
Tl:dr the money/win nerf was definitely a nerf, and lowered the incentive to play more than your quests. At the same time getting rid of assassin and aggressor should lower the amount of people that play only 1-4 games.

#89

The question is HOW it will lower that number. There are two ways it can happen.

@ezekeel I try hard not to be a doomer and I’ve forgiven them for the Shim’zar thing (even though they refused to even apologize for it). But it is definitely dismaying to see the game becoming less generous and/or more demanding at this time.

In your assessment though you should include the new bundles, which are a significantly better deal for new players than the old one.

ETA: Mostly why I am here is the game and the community. That includes the community of players and the developers as well. Even if we don’t agree with all their moves, having developers who will interact with and respond to players is something special. I have never seen it as good as it is here, and it deserves a lot of leeway in my book.

#90

Lol; for a game that advertises lightning fast games they want you to play longer sessions.15 dollars and 100+ hours is pretty good. I’ll probably just end up playing it infrequently on my phone. It’s still a good game, but there are better things I could be doing with my free time on the computer at this point.

#91
  • Players who win less than 8 games a day should earn more now.
  • Players who win more than 8 games a day will earn less.
  • Players who win more than 25 games a day will earn more.

For example:

  • Before if you played 8 games in 2 days you got 75 gold (2 faction, 1 neutral).
    Now if you play 8 games in 2 days you get 90 gold (2 faction, 1 neutral).

  • Players who play 8 games every day will get 70 quest gold (instead of 50), but only 20 gold from wins (instead of 30). They’ll get 90 gold now where they got 80 gold before.

It’s actually a positive change for the casual players. A negative change for dedicated players.

#92

Sorry, but your argument is not totally correct. For instance, you are not considering that a possible quest outcome for 8 matches in 2 days was 2 factions and 2 neutrals, or 4 neutrals. The first scenario was worth 110 gold at most, while the second one was worth 100 golds. In the best case, the second scenario could be achieved with one game per day!

Add to this the nerf to the gold for the individual wins. Up to yesterday, a player with 50℅ win rate could get 70 golds in two days. Now the same player would get around 60 golds in the same time.

If you distribute this over one month, you can readily see how casual players are penalised.

#93

Not much to discuss here because the Devs stated that they want to reward so called engaged players more and want casual players to “encourage” to play more (and - don’t take this as an offense plz!) I believe their maths more then yours:

I don’t do the math - but I believe in the math of the Devs.

#94

Just believe my math :slight_smile:

#95

No - I did the math - but it was too long for me to write it down. And it’s not that simple you think. For example the chance to do the faction quest with the faction you want is just half then before - not good for the win rate.
But I said what I had to. I don’t discuss this. It’s too obvious.
Elephants are not pink.

#96

I’m seconding you :slight_smile: though I agree my approximated count is a bit overly simplified, it still shows that casual players will have a harder time

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#97

The problem with changing the gold income is that it was one of the big advantages the game had over Hearthstone for example. I always found that winning 3 games to earn a bit of gold was tedious in Hearthstone and I ended up just not playing it regularly, since the effort of trying to get 3 wins and build up gold wasn’t worth the effort that was put in. Whereas, the win 2 system (pre-patch) felt a lot quicker and more fun to get while it encouraged me to play longer then I would normally would have. As for the quest changes, I’ll personally never finish the 50g quests in one day. Would take too long to do and the 50g quests look like a grinding type quest. Which is the sort of thing I’ve always hated in any game.

#98

I think that, ultimately, the failing in the economy change is that they have chosen to use negative reinforcement on the one-or-two-games-a-day (OOTGAD) casual crowd as a whole when they don’t really need to to get players to play more.

Think about it. You basically have two main types of OOTGAD players. Some (OOTGAD-1) go OOTGAD because it’s what’s efficient and they will willingly turn into eight-or-nine-games-a-day (EONGAD) players with the advent of an efficient plateau carrot for the EONGAD play pattern; other players (OOTGAD-2) are OOTGAD because that’s their preferred play pattern and they continue to play Duelyst because Duelyst gives comparatively excellent OOTGAD rewards. You take that away, then they may just go play something else instead of altering their preferred play pattern.

The OOTGAD-1 are fine with either play pattern and don’t need you to punish the OOTGAD play pattern to choose to go EONGAD, just better EONGAD rewards. The OOTGAD-2, on the other hand, may go play something else that fits their play pattern better. I mean, it’s not a zero-sum Game of Gold. When you lose some profit to giving the EONGAD faction X extra Gold to get them to play more, it’s not like you are getting the profit back by taking X Gold away from corresponding OOTGAD faction even if they do stay. It just doesn’t work like that. =S

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#99

Actually I did. You could get 4 neutral quests over 2 days, you could also get 4 faction quests, 3/4’s of the quests are faction quests. I averaged that out. Some days playing 4 games will beat both quests, some days it will only beat one quest. I chose the middle ground.

There are all sorts of possibilities, which it seems like you haven’t tried account for. Sometimes players might not replace a faction quest. It’s possible to beat the new 50g quests in 4 games. I used some common sense & based my numbers on a simplified average.

#100

NOTGAD!..sorry reading all those out loud cracked me up. :joy:

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#101

I said 8 games gets you (around) 90 gold from quests and wins, more than the 80g it used to.
Add 25 for the daily win & 5 gold for the daily challenge. That’s 115 to 120 gold.

majority of players will earn 110 to 125 GOLD. This is slightly more than in the old system.

players will earn 45 GOLD. This is less than the theoretical max in the old system.

It says “theoretical max”, not the average. If you win every game and get the best quests;

  • You could earn; +55 gold from quests, +25 from daily win, & +30 from wins.
    4 games could give you 110 gold before.

  • Now you can earn; +70 gold from quests, +25 from daily win, & +15 from wins.
    4 games can give you 110 gold now.

The theoretical max is not helpful, it was very unlikely before and significantly less likely now.

At 4 games vast majority of players will earn 45 GOLD.

They said after 4 games players will earn 45 gold now. That’s 25 for the daily win, and 20 for the faction quest. But 4 games is also half of the other quest 25 (out of 50) gold, and 2 wins is 10 (out of 15) gold, that’s +35 gold a day which carries over to the next.

This means (if you are efficient) it’s more like 80 gold a day now.

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#102

Balance Changes

  • [LIKE] Glad to see some Balance Changes to Songhai. Especially like the adjustments of Mana Vortex, Lantern Fox and Cryogenesis. I’m curious to see how this will effect the new meta.

Battlemaps

  • [LIKE] I like the new maps. And having some unique ones to unlock and ‘show off’ to your opponent makes them very special.

  • [SUGGESTION] However, I really liked the randomness and variety of maps I play on. I wouldn’t want to have the same one everytime I’m Player one, or that I would have to choose beforehand which one I like, but rather have the Game choose for me.
    So here is my idea:
    A Panel where to select any number of existing free maps + unlocked Battlemaps. And one of them will be chosen randomly when you are Player 1. If you only select one, that’s where you will end up on (as Player 1). This way you could have more than one Battlemap selected.

Quest Changes

  • [SUGGESTION] The new Quest System is a nice attempt, and the bigger reward is attracting. But I found the second quest, in particular the ultimate aggressor, quite frustrating and tiresome to complete, and easily taking more than 10 games.
    Also it tempts to building extra decks just for the cause of dealing damage to the enemy general, or destroying minions, but I guess that’s alright.
    The bigger issue for me is the amount of time the 2nd quest can consume, which isn’t in favor of casual players. They might either not have the time a day to complete them, or it cuts them low on their ‘play for fun’ freetime.
    I would like to see some numbers on these Quests lowered:
  • Adventurer: seems fine to me, it doesn’t require wins, only games played. If the reward gets lowered, cutting it down to 6 games might be worth consideration.
  • Ultimate Aggressor: is way to high. In the best case scenario: this quest is completed in 6 games, that is if you win them all and the opponent does not surrender early. Average 9-10 games is more likely, and if it doesn’t go well 12+.
    Cut down the damage to 100 and lower the reward if you wish.
  • Assassin: very hard to predict. Haven’t had this quest yet, and depends hard on how long the games take, or what faction you are playing against.
    Assuming you kill 4-8 minions a game, it would take at least 7 games, and average 9 to complete. That is acceptable, taking swarm games vs Abyssian or Vetruvian into account.
    Might lower it a bit. To 40 or 35 minions.

Per-Win Reward

  • [DISLIKE] Getting only 5 Gold per 2 wins after a while was really low, I agree, but in the exchange of earning 15 gold only every 3 wins now, disfavors and discourages new and casual players too heavily in my opinion.
    Duelyst stands out by it’s very generous and rewarding system, even for beginners, encouraging and motivating them to keep playing, unlike other very grind-heavy or ‘force to pay’ games.
    Of course players that play more, should be able to get some more out of it, than casual players. But gauntlet itself does that already, which is very, very generous and rewarding for experienced players, enabling infinite gold-loops, whereas new unexperienced, or simply less dedicated players, have to rely on the per-win gold.
    This new System is just too much of a drawback for them, in favor of grinding, and that’s not what I’d like to see Duelyst to become. I’d rather see the Community growing. Therefor keep it a beginner and casual friendly game, that motivates with a generous system early on.

  • [SUGGESTION] I would really want to see the 15 gold per 2 wins again, to keep new and casual players attracted. And for the grinders, increase the cap to 10 gold per 2 wins, instead of 5, which would be equivalent to 15 gold per 3 wins. So everyone profits.

~ CHIJO

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