Duelyst Forums

Duelyst Patch 1.76 – Duelyst

#104

Yes, but the simplified average assumes people will always accept the faction quest, no matter what. In the new system, if I get a faction quest for a faction I’m not comfortable playing, there are two possibilities: 1) ignore it, rank up on the ladder, get no gold from the faction quest or 2) do the faction quest, get the gold and lose ranks on the ladder. Most of the times, I would go for scenario 1, especially if I was next to a goal like Rank 10, which would give me only 25 quest gold per day (half of the long quest done). This is exactly the worst case scenario for the old system.

Trust me, this is going to be frustrating for many players which prefer to play mostly one or two factions. Maybe even 3 factions would not be enough, since 25℅ of the times you would still get a quest for a faction you don’t like. If the devs really want to stick to this change, I would say it’s about time to bring the casual mode in.

How the new quest system will affect me (and the game)
#105

Agreed 8000%, if I am to buy multiple maps (which I am planning to), I want to cycle between them without going into the deck builder, that’s very unwieldy.
Please notice this suggestion devs :slight_smile:

#106

I have a question, have the new battlemaps been added to the droprate of the epic chests? Because if they are i would be more inclined to purchase some.

#107

Yes they have been

3 Likes
#108

I don’t suppose there are any plans for adapting cosmetics in Gauntlet? I’ve bought many cosmetics, but I primarily play Gauntlet, so I never get to see prismatics, card backs, or the new premium battle maps.

I understand if it’s low-to-negligible on the “to-do” list, but I and I’m sure many others would enjoy some extra flair in our Gauntlet runs. :smile:

2 Likes
#111

…or at least put the old ones back in as an additional quest slot. Make those longer quests refill at a different rate if you are so worried about being too generous, CP.

1 Like
#112

They confirmed that they will be toning the new quests down if they end up not giving the results they expected. Relax.

4 Likes
#113

:sunglasses: chillin’ like a villian, @raqyee. :kissing_heart:

1 Like
#114

The problem with the conclusion of the analysis that players that play less than 8 games a day get more gold is the following:

That is assuming that the 50 gold quest can reasonably be completed under 8 games.

The 50 gold quest is the majority of the gold one can earn assuming that they are not playing 20 or so games a day.

Basically if one can not reasonably complete the 50 gold quest in their allotted time (less than 8 games played a day), then their gold income takes a 50 gold hit.

This quest change only favors two kinds of players:

Those that would play 20 games a day regardless, and those that play fine “tuned” “quest completion decks”.

For example on the “quest completion decks”:
OTK sajj for the ultimate aggressor quest(win or lose you deal 20 damage a game)
An aoe heavy deck for the assassin quest(keeper magmar?)
Swarm abyssian and similar decks for the minion summon quest.

So basically if your deck is not well suited for the daily quest and you have time constraints. You will basically not have fun playing the game (since per win gold income was nerfed meaning that you also lose on that too since you have time constraints).

As for me, since siphon was nerfed, I am just playing OTK Sajj and hoping for ultimate aggressor quest. Build up the combo, deal 20 damage concede. repeat 6-8 times and log out.

#115

I thin your overlooking the fact that completing a quest partially prevents progress on the quest from disappearing the next day.

#116

The lost of 45 gold from not completing it before the next day’s quest refresh is a far bigger concern when it comes to quest completion.

#117

change back to old quest.

mods go ahead and stop me

#118

Well I think you would get a similar amount of gold now if you play 4 games. That’s not because I think you will complete the big quest every day. Instead imagine it this way:

Now 4 games can beat the 20g faction quest and half of the 50g big quest. That’s 45g a day.

Before 4 games could beat a faction quest and a neutral quest to get 50g, or you might beat a faction quest and fail a faction quest for 25g.

Now you get 45g, before you got 40g (between 25 & 50g). Now you get 10g from wins, before you got 15g. So you get 55g (45+10) now and 55g (40+15) before.

For a more advanced comparison you need probability (which I can’t really remember). I don’t know if every quest is equally probable (I assume so), only 1/4 of quests are neutral, also players sometimes don’t replace a faction quest for a few reasons.

I believe the odds of getting 2 faction quests is 6/85/75/7 = 38% (one replace unused).

38% of 25g + 61% of 50g = 40g on average. That’s what I used above.

1 Like
#119

The majority of the mathematics looks correct, however the 5 gold minimum from failed faction quests wasn’t taken in account.

The change from 15 gold to 10 gold from wins makes playtime more optimal in two extremes:

One in which one play 3 hours or more a day.
And one in which one plays the bare minimum to complete quests, since grinding out games is less effective until one passes the 12 wins thresh hold.

Now instead of there being an incentive to play past the bare minimum, it is not only less economical (until more than 15 wins is achieved), but also less Flexible.

This is rather important for casual players, they want to be able to play and stop playing when they feel like it. Assuming a 50% win rate, consider the psychological effect of the following:

One is doing well and wants to play a couple more games(until the gold from wins is proct since they want to feel they did something for playing a bit more/ they are at 90 gold):

25% chance of winning 2 in a row and thus finishing with the little bit of gold needed for the pack under the old system.

12.5% chance of winning 3 in a row and thus finishing with the little bit of gold need for the pack under the current system.

The psychological change desensitizes one from playing a little bit more, since it “halves” the chance of getting gold in the very short term.

Also an additional psychological effect is on “greed”, say said person does “win” the chance (be it 25% or 12.5%), there is a further discouragement for going for another roll at an other gold bonus. This is rather minor but from my own experience there were times that I played far more than I intended since I kept “rerolling” the chance at more quick gold due to previous good fortune. The psychological effect of having “halve” the chance has greatly reduced the frequency of such behavior here.

Now I will admit such behavior stops at the very latest when the 12 wins bonus gold was exhausted, however the frequency of getting to that stage has been greatly reduced in my personal experience.

I honestly think they are going to change it (at the very least tweak it), at the month’s end patch since it appears it to have an ill effect from the statistics available (600 average players compared to 1,000 average players on the steam version of the game).

#120

Haha. Haha. It’s not Russia here.

2 Likes
#121

Well, idk, I have played only the quests for the last few days and I have a lot more gold it seems. So, not based on mathematics, with a casual playstyle, provided you finish it all, to me it FEELS more generous.
Which is good news.

#122

Yes, I also feel this system isn’t as bad as it looks, if you are willing to complete the faction quest if feels average, and if you manage to complete the second quest in a day it feels generous.

On the other hand, they should give you 15 gold per win instead of 15 gold every 3 wins. Often you just need 5 gold to buy a pack

#123

I do agree with you, I believe:

  • It should reward you every time you succeed, instead of giving out a reward at random intervals. Players should get 5 gold after every win, instead of 15 after every 3 wins.

  • Duelyst should do more to reward casual players if they want more players.

If you don’t finish any quest you get 5 gold?

  • Now you finish the big quest 1/2 the time (4/8 games), so 1/2 the time you get 5 gold.
  • Before you get 2 factions quests 1/3’rd of the time (38%), so 1/3’rd the time you 5 gold.
    That’s the same, that’s 2.5g now & 1.9g before.

Now instead of there being an incentive to play past the bare minimum, it is not only less economical (until more than 15 wins is achieved), but also less Flexible.

It’s actually not great for the players who play a lot. 10 wins a day was 75g before, it’s 50g now, that’s 25g less. You only get 20g more from the quests, so 10 wins gives you less gold.

  • Get more than 9 wins a day & you will earn less now. (~18 games)
  • Get more than 20 wins a day & you get more now. (~40 games)
#124

After much discussion, I think its time I share my thoughts on the gold change, and why it may not be as bad as everyone thinks for casual players. While I don’t have much to say regarding win bonuses (which, if the devs decides anything needs to be change, I hope they just target the 15 gold per x wins bonus), I will analyze the quests in particular, and exclude extra gold bonuses such as the first win of the day, win bonuses, and daily challenges.

First off, by completing both quests, you will always get 70 gold flat by completing them. Previously, the gold recieved was more variable, ranging from 45 (Assasin + Faction), 50 (2 Faction Quests), and 55 (Faction + Aggressor). Assuming it requires ~8 wins to complete each quest, a player now will stricktly get more gold by 20 gold for playing 8 games when compared to having 2 Faction quests previously. Another thing is that the 50 gold quest can be completed simultaneously with the Faction quest, which further saves time.

Now, I want to address the concern of casual players. Many say that they can only accomplish ~4 games a day, making their net gain be 20 gold, which is less than 25~35 what you would get previously. At first glance, this is easily an attempt at CPG to try and get more dedicated players to play longer (which has it flaws, as many attributes to the lack of game modes that players can participate in, the main ones being gauntlet and ranked). However, the next time you play, there is the Welcome Back Quest (ranging from 5 to 25 bonus gold) for 3 matches. The progress of your previous 50 gold quest will also be carried over, so assuming you complete all quests within ~4 wins, you would make 75~95 gold (Not including any bonuses).

Assuming you play 4 games a day for 2 days straight (which exluces the previous 2 faction quests), you’re total net gain of gold would look something like this;

Previously:
Min: 45+45= 90 gold
Mid: 45+55= 100 gold
Max: 55+55= 110 gold

Currently:
Plays 2 days in a row: 20+75= 95 gold. (70 from dailies and 5 from Welcome Back)
A day since last played: 20+80= 100 gold.
2 days since last played: 20+85= 105 gold.
3 days since last played: 20+90= 110 gold.
4 days since last played: 20+95= 115 gold.

As you can see, while their are more chances for a ‘casual’ player (~ 4 games played daily) to make more gold previously than the current system, it is important to note that their is also more variability in the amount of gold recieve. Also, in the previous system, it isn’t guaranteed that you would get 0~1 faction quests in the first place, making it a bit of a gamble for casual players to play around 4 games in the first place. Also, the system actually rewards you for not playing the game, as you would make the same gold by completing the 50 gold quest with a 3 day brake in comparisson to playing two quests in a row in the old system. (Note: I do not include Welcome back quests in the old system, as A.) both quests should be completed in a minimal of 4 games and B.) if you do NOT complete one of the quests in the old system, you already have a net gain in the new system).

To conclude, the new gold system provides a more Consistent way for players to achieve gold from quests with less Variability from the quests you could recieve in the previous patch. The biggest difference between the above calculation of 2 days of playing 4 games in a row is 15 gold, with the least being 10, which can be compensated through means of win bonuses (which is another topic to discuss in my opinion). One of the greatest things about Duelyst quests is that IT DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO WIN TO COMPLETE QUESTS, which is huge in comparison to other quests like in Hearthstone that forces you to win when you complete quests. You also get all quests back each day, whereas in RNGstone you only get about 1 per day and have a higher variability in the amount of gold you could get per day.

If there is anything that I think should be changed to help accomidate for ‘casual’ players (and that is a bit “if”), I would suggest focussing on either the win bonuses, a sligh adjustment of the Welcome back quest (although I feel that the Welcome Back quest is currently in a good place right now), or adding new and interesting game mode that rewards packs on a weekly basis, similar to Tavern Brawl.

7 Likes
#125

After playing with it for a while , i think that they new “quest system” is good enough. The faction slot has to go tho … forcing players to play what they don’t like or simply don’t want to play is never fun especially for new players.

But i’m still very unhappy about the gold per win income ! It should go back to 2w/15g (preferably without cap) even with the cap it’s still a better system than the current one in place. Having to win 3 games to get anything towards your collection is everything but rewarding.

1 Like