My name is Nick Digger and I approve this message.
Duelyst: Bursting with Burst!
@karsticles
I can imagine your games being slower because of using control Lyonar. I use control Magmar, and my matches get drawn out a lot too. And out-of-hand damage is not very prevalent in Lyonar, so I can imagine the frustration that might cause.
Personally, I donāt think Rush itself is the problem. I just think that there may be too many burst options. Heck, Keeper of the Vale, a minion that has been a staple for control decks, now abuses Rush minions in some Magmar decks. Things like that just give me a bad feeling about Aggro potential.
Interesting First Turn Kill.
I donāt think dance of dreams stacks. If you use your zor trick twice you should have enough cards anyway.
Planar Scout is a simpler alternative to zyx.
I believe you have enough mana for a single flash grincher.
No clue what this step is for.
Would be nice if someone can calculate the probability of the First Turn Kill. A perfect hand, perfect RNG and perfect follow up draw. Must be really complicated.
Thinking too much on something that will never happen 
@jernat
Definitely understandable. And as long as Shadow Sister Kelaino sticks around, Abyssian will always have that control-like potential. And donāt worry, we accept all forms of ākeyboard vomitā!
I had actually shared a Control Vaath deck that I made on the forums not too long ago which got me to S-Rank last season. So I promise, I understand the potential that some control decks have in the meta (although I think only Vaath and Cassyva have that potential right now. Maybe Zirāan).
Thanks, I guess Iāll keep keyboard vomitting away! XD
Going back to your OP, you mentioned the wide array of burst options might have caused the preservation of the right cards and developing a superior board to feel unrewarding. I think a case could be made that the existence of decks/cards with great burst potential actually afford these factors even greater profundity rather than diminish its significance.
Risk management and basic decision making feel more important in the prevalence of burst, like when to go face with your general, or saving your Plasma Storm even when the opponent has a superior board to gain more value in the later turns, or deciding whether to flash a Makantor for whatever immediate gains (and lose two cards) or replace the flash instead to fish out an Earth Sphere to mitigate an expected future burst. The list goes on.
The fact that the opponent has potential burst (among other things) massively influences our tactical nuances and concentration. What we replace, where we move and how far, going aggressive or playing defensively, keeping tabs on the opponentās hand size and board to estimate said burstā¦ Iām rambling again.
My contention is that decks such as the Reva variants, for example, and out of hand damage arenāt actually cancerous to the game. They add a much needed dynamic and how fast or slow your opponent is completely changes how you pilot or build your own deck, therefore magnifying tactical depth. Besides, clinching a win after dropping below 10 health by turn 4 is an incredible feeling, and is an emotion that wouldnāt exist in such quantities if burst were not the way it is.
Maybe Iām just a masochist.
This next part is NOT directed at the OP and might be slightly off topic, but I think itās worth mentioning here:
Thereās a lot of complaints across the forum that such-and-such mechanic, deck, general, burst or what have you are nigh-impossible to play around. Again, sometimes RNGsus reserves itās blessing for your opponent and not you, so tough luck.
Other times however, sometimes thereās simply a line of play you didnāt consider that could have won you the game or at least provided you the tempo swing to stay afloat.
I was spectating a match of an S-rank player roughly a week ago. The player was running Vaath against a Cassyva opponent. Vaath was occupying the tile left of top centre, Cass was at the bottom, slightly to the right at 5 health. In between them are a line of Cassās minions, including an Ooz pet. There might have been a Keliano at some far corner too, but memory fails.
Anyway, it was Vaathās turn. He was rather low on health himself and after a replace, his hand was two Egg Morphs, something irrelevant, and a 0 cost Mandrake. He had 8 mana to spare. Letās assume that Cass would have cast Obliterate the next turn and killed him.
With no apparent gap closer or burst, I think most players would assume the Vaath player certainly lost. Instead, he takes two steps right and casts a free Mandrake diagonally below him. He then Egg Morphs the Mandrake twice, effectively giving it rush. Now the Mandrake saunters up to Cassyva and smashes her in the face. Vaath wins.
Itās easy for players (especially newer ones like myself) to complain about unfairness or impossible odds. But honestly, you might find that victory could have instead been yours if you just know where to look.
TL;DR: are faulty mechanics or card designs the main problem here, or is it a lack of knowledge/experience/skill/experimentation/positivity from a portion of the playerbase?
P.S: Vaath and Casyvva are the obvious - and arguably best - candidates for a control skewed deck.
1 Like
people always forget that you can use egg morph on your own minionsā¦ and that egg hatching gives rush. but if i was hit by that, i wouldnt even be mad. thats impressive
2 Likes
Hah thatās nice, but it doesnāt work as Ghost Lynx only teleports minions 
@jernat
You make a valid point. Iāve definitely refrained from using certain cards because of potential burst (not using Makantor in case my opponent had their own Makantor for example). Burst brings forth a dynamic of Duelyst that forces players to be more cautious with their moves.
I guess I just think that burst can be great for the gameā¦in moderation. I donāt think that I should have to play around it nearly every turn, which at least for me, seems to be the case more often than not.
In my opinion burst is fine if it is used as a removal tool but burst damage to face is currently too much in Duelyst. Besides Songhaiās nasty combos they can pull off out of nowhere the largest culprit for this seem to be rush minions. I wonder whether it would not better to change rush minions to not being able to go face the first turn they are played - except maybe dervishes from obelisk.
edit: Now that I think some more about it, maybe there should be a general rule that minions cannot go face the turn they are played. That would prevent rush minions from going face while still allowing dervishes to do so because they are not played only summoned and it would prevent Songhai craziness with playing a minion and immediately attacking with it because of Inner Focus.
Rush is a real issue and maybe should be an ability to rework gamewide, not on an indivdual minion level.
It seems they try to (badly) fix some way (Night Watcher) a feature that went out of control (Makantor/Elucidator+Thumping Wave, Tiger+Afterblaze, Boar+MirrorMeld+Killing Edge ā¦)
Maybe put a spell shield on a minion with rush the turn it is summoned would solve that.
Even if I often use Rush minions, I wonāt be mad if the ability was completly removed and replaced with something different, something not alterating so heavily the game āpaceā.
The problem with this sort of suggestion is that abilities (read: the keyword ones) need to be consistent in their effect. If it changes more than one thing, or changes over time, it is a very poor choice for evergreening, and a questionable design decision. The game is, after all, supposed to be simple from the get-go.
Having weird exceptions for what you can do with particular cards is a good way to dictate what you can and cannot do with the game (I think yugioh showcases an extreme of such rigidity, basically every single deck is tribal because they make sure everything is incredibly specific) and also makes it more convoluted than it should ever be.
I agree, sadly, I think weāre stuck with āRushā forever
Shadowverse which came out on Steam this week has two types of Rush
Rush- which is something that can hit minions but not generals. (Plus it has an evolve mechanic which allows for rushing and a bonus to a minion, limited to 2 or 3 times per game barring some cards)
Storm which is the current rush.
Maybe Duelyst can borrow that mechanic and limit some cards to only hitting minions.
Gah! Knew I missed something.
Iāve thought of flash silhouette tracer or flash grincher into cyclone mask, but theyāre 1 tile/ mana short.
@humancalc
I think dances of dreams stack?
Planar scout will die before entering the field, so you canāt grab tiles with it.
The grinched twin fang costs 1 still.
That step is to allow ghost lynx to be in range of the face for it teleport it to your face. If it actually works like that.
Well, at least you can T1k as player 2, if the P1 walks forward like always.
No, I think the damage is taken after it enters the field. So you probably can get the tile.
But Iām not entirely sure. Somebody with the sandbox MOD needs to test this out.
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