Lol, I was about to start “slowing the meta a bit” thread today, the game is just a little bit too fast in my opinion, and control decks just need a little bit of love. I tried to do a control Magmar deck with almost all the healing and removal but if you do that, the deck is going to be too slow to win earlly game so you’re basiclly losing at turn 3-4 anyways l, and officient removals are just too slow to recover, so I though what about speeding up the removals? It’s not a bad idea in my opinion, let’s take for example plasma storm, you want to play it when there is a bunch stuff on board, right? Well, mostly if you cannot conquest mana tiles you’re screwd at 4 mana and at 5 they’re going to buff their minons or trade, so plasma storm becomes useless. Not to mention that even at full mana they’re going to recover fast enough because with 4 mana left you can’t really do anything.
With more mana left you can play more things, or heal so they have to spend something to not loose, but 20 damage out of ass?
Duelyst: Bursting with Burst!
It’s actually possible to T1 otk as player 1, albeit ridiculous.
move face right 2
replace dream gazer, have it spawn diagonally in front
play kajuta on the tile, play another kajuta near the middle tile
play manaforger on the middle tile, play dance of dreams
play zyx near the last tile, have the spawn spawn on the last tile
draw into z0r and play z0r, get a helm of mechaz0r and draw into dance of dreams
play dance of dreams and helm of mechaz0r
dance of memes until you:
draw a ≦2 mana thing with 3+ health (like a manaforger) or a zyx and play it right of the middle tile
draw & play ghost lynx, teleport the face to your face
draw double flash reincarnation and grincher, play grincher and get twinfang
play the 2 discounted twinfang with the 1 mana you have from the first zyx spawning on the tile
dance of meme until you can oneshot the face
Is the meta inherently fast, or is this just a self-fulfilling prophecy? I’ve been playing Control Lyonar this season, and my matches are consistently >15 turns long.
That said, I am not a fan of out-of-hand burst damage, and I would love to see a nerf to the Rush mechanic such that Rush minions cannot attack generals on the turn they are played - make the ability about reach and tempo. This would also open up a lot of new and interesting card possibilities, because right now Rush has to be limited for its face-punching capability.
I’m not really convinced that the fast speed of the meta is dictated by burst damage. Rather, I think that playing minions on curve in the first few turns is a bit too strong, because most factions lack effective come-back opportunities. People complain about Songhai for the out-of-hand damage, but the minion spam by some Vetruvian decks is even more annoying to me.
Coming more to the topic, I don’t personally find burst damage too strong or prevalent in Duelyst. I believe that burst is not necessarily bad, since control decks may also exploit it to close the game, see the use of Thumping Wave on Makantor in some slower Magma decks.
There is Magmar Keeper-Control. A couple of deck lists have been posted over the last few days. They seemed to me to be the definition of control. And their pilots reached S-Rank with them.
But in general, I agree. Not many factions can build control decks because not many factions have cards that let them regain tempo once they’ve fallen behind in the early game (think Plasma Storm).
Not letal, but once I was playimg against Reva and she attacked me with a 9/8 Chakri on turn one (going second)
They are slowing it a bit down, and I think it will be a great pace when the new expansion hits, they seem to be preparing for it. Of course, I could be wrong and it could become even faster, but I feel like they are aware and protecting what they see as the right ‘speed’.
And I love the game how it is now after the new November cards. Especially Ironclad (I did not expect this, especially true in Abyssian) and Azure Herald are great. Literally 25 minutes ago a Songhai player started the game with Phoenix Fire. I did a turn 1 Azure Herald I would have been sad to play without triggering its opening gambit otherwise, perfectly negating his damage. Real nice feeling 
I have quick games, and I have games that last 15 turns. It’s really also what deck you bring, and what deck the opponent brings.
This. I can go to turn 12 and beyond with my replace deck (pinging off entire regalia in one turn) and I have bursted opponents down by turn 5 with Dervish Vet.
I’ve only been playing about two months so I’m obviously no expert, but I don’t subscribe to the belief that the game’s too fast in its current state.
True, I’ve been on the wrong side of a turn two 15-18 damage burst on multiple occasions. I’ve seen insane burst from a wealth of decks that are NOT helmed by Reva.
Regardless, a significant portion of matches I’ve played have lasted 10-15 minutes. Quite a few have lasted longer. As exciting as most matches are, there were times I’ve actually wished the games went by quicker.
Cassyva Control is well embedded in the meta and great at what it does. From what little I’ve spectated, drezbo (34 magmar ribbons) pilots what looks like a Control Vaath deck with Emerald Rejuvenator, Rust Crawler and Archon Spellbinder. He seems to have a decent enough win rate in S division.
I’ve had artifact Sajj obliterate me once (in high Diamond or S, can’t recall) and that deck isn’t known for speed.
And as someone mentioned earlier, burst enablers afford control or slower archetypes the power to equalise games or simply win them outright after a century of playing catch up. It’s usually quite exciting to see a surprise gamechanger come out of the blue.
Some of these surprise bursts can be overcome with a little draw luck, smart positioning and knowledge of the meta, the card pool, etc. If the opponents undertakes a line of play that’s impossible to overcome? In games with decks and probability, this is an inherent, inescapable part of the game. All factions, when blessed by RNGsus, can create a scenario that almost certainly guarantees their win in the early turns.
Maybe I’m an outlier or just lucky (or delusional), but I haven’t encountered enough ridiculous matches to feel that the meta is too fast or that burst damage is a fundamental flaw hurting the game.
My two cents, and sorry for the keyboard vomit.
I’ve already stopped, and I’m sure I’m not alone. Waiting for things to (hopefully) get better eventually.
My name is Nick Digger and I approve this message.
@karsticles
I can imagine your games being slower because of using control Lyonar. I use control Magmar, and my matches get drawn out a lot too. And out-of-hand damage is not very prevalent in Lyonar, so I can imagine the frustration that might cause.
Personally, I don’t think Rush itself is the problem. I just think that there may be too many burst options. Heck, Keeper of the Vale, a minion that has been a staple for control decks, now abuses Rush minions in some Magmar decks. Things like that just give me a bad feeling about Aggro potential.
Interesting First Turn Kill.
I don’t think dance of dreams stacks. If you use your zor trick twice you should have enough cards anyway.
Planar Scout is a simpler alternative to zyx.
I believe you have enough mana for a single flash grincher.
No clue what this step is for.
Would be nice if someone can calculate the probability of the First Turn Kill. A perfect hand, perfect RNG and perfect follow up draw. Must be really complicated.
Thinking too much on something that will never happen 
@jernat
Definitely understandable. And as long as Shadow Sister Kelaino sticks around, Abyssian will always have that control-like potential. And don’t worry, we accept all forms of “keyboard vomit”!
I had actually shared a Control Vaath deck that I made on the forums not too long ago which got me to S-Rank last season. So I promise, I understand the potential that some control decks have in the meta (although I think only Vaath and Cassyva have that potential right now. Maybe Zir’an).
Thanks, I guess I’ll keep keyboard vomitting away! XD
Going back to your OP, you mentioned the wide array of burst options might have caused the preservation of the right cards and developing a superior board to feel unrewarding. I think a case could be made that the existence of decks/cards with great burst potential actually afford these factors even greater profundity rather than diminish its significance.
Risk management and basic decision making feel more important in the prevalence of burst, like when to go face with your general, or saving your Plasma Storm even when the opponent has a superior board to gain more value in the later turns, or deciding whether to flash a Makantor for whatever immediate gains (and lose two cards) or replace the flash instead to fish out an Earth Sphere to mitigate an expected future burst. The list goes on.
The fact that the opponent has potential burst (among other things) massively influences our tactical nuances and concentration. What we replace, where we move and how far, going aggressive or playing defensively, keeping tabs on the opponent’s hand size and board to estimate said burst… I’m rambling again.
My contention is that decks such as the Reva variants, for example, and out of hand damage aren’t actually cancerous to the game. They add a much needed dynamic and how fast or slow your opponent is completely changes how you pilot or build your own deck, therefore magnifying tactical depth. Besides, clinching a win after dropping below 10 health by turn 4 is an incredible feeling, and is an emotion that wouldn’t exist in such quantities if burst were not the way it is.
Maybe I’m just a masochist.
This next part is NOT directed at the OP and might be slightly off topic, but I think it’s worth mentioning here:
There’s a lot of complaints across the forum that such-and-such mechanic, deck, general, burst or what have you are nigh-impossible to play around. Again, sometimes RNGsus reserves it’s blessing for your opponent and not you, so tough luck.
Other times however, sometimes there’s simply a line of play you didn’t consider that could have won you the game or at least provided you the tempo swing to stay afloat.
I was spectating a match of an S-rank player roughly a week ago. The player was running Vaath against a Cassyva opponent. Vaath was occupying the tile left of top centre, Cass was at the bottom, slightly to the right at 5 health. In between them are a line of Cass’s minions, including an Ooz pet. There might have been a Keliano at some far corner too, but memory fails.
Anyway, it was Vaath’s turn. He was rather low on health himself and after a replace, his hand was two Egg Morphs, something irrelevant, and a 0 cost Mandrake. He had 8 mana to spare. Let’s assume that Cass would have cast Obliterate the next turn and killed him.
With no apparent gap closer or burst, I think most players would assume the Vaath player certainly lost. Instead, he takes two steps right and casts a free Mandrake diagonally below him. He then Egg Morphs the Mandrake twice, effectively giving it rush. Now the Mandrake saunters up to Cassyva and smashes her in the face. Vaath wins.
It’s easy for players (especially newer ones like myself) to complain about unfairness or impossible odds. But honestly, you might find that victory could have instead been yours if you just know where to look.
TL;DR: are faulty mechanics or card designs the main problem here, or is it a lack of knowledge/experience/skill/experimentation/positivity from a portion of the playerbase?
P.S: Vaath and Casyvva are the obvious - and arguably best - candidates for a control skewed deck.
people always forget that you can use egg morph on your own minions… and that egg hatching gives rush. but if i was hit by that, i wouldnt even be mad. thats impressive
Hah that’s nice, but it doesn’t work as Ghost Lynx only teleports minions 
@jernat
You make a valid point. I’ve definitely refrained from using certain cards because of potential burst (not using Makantor in case my opponent had their own Makantor for example). Burst brings forth a dynamic of Duelyst that forces players to be more cautious with their moves.
I guess I just think that burst can be great for the game…in moderation. I don’t think that I should have to play around it nearly every turn, which at least for me, seems to be the case more often than not.
In my opinion burst is fine if it is used as a removal tool but burst damage to face is currently too much in Duelyst. Besides Songhai’s nasty combos they can pull off out of nowhere the largest culprit for this seem to be rush minions. I wonder whether it would not better to change rush minions to not being able to go face the first turn they are played - except maybe dervishes from obelisk.
edit: Now that I think some more about it, maybe there should be a general rule that minions cannot go face the turn they are played. That would prevent rush minions from going face while still allowing dervishes to do so because they are not played only summoned and it would prevent Songhai craziness with playing a minion and immediately attacking with it because of Inner Focus.