Duelyst Forums

Do you think Kara BBS and Saberspine tiger is a balanced interaction?

#26

That’s… absolutely not true. Now I haven’t played Yugioh in a loooonng time, but from I can recall, there were setups that let you flat out win on turn 2. Hearthstone doesn’t have any OTK combos that don’t require previous setup, not since the Patron days. The closest would either be Velen + Embrace The Shadows + heal -> damage spam, but that requires Velen to be alive for a turn or a lot of ET ticks. Still not a perfect OTK.

That being said, Duelyst doesn’t have many OTK combos either, assuming we’re going with the standard definition of OTK as “Killing an enemy in one turn when they have 80% or more of their max health.” Theres Divine Bond + Ironcliff, which is already a known problem. And that’s really it. Even Shadow Nova is just burst damage.

#27

Right. People freak out about a 6/5 tiger, but do they really not understand that having 1/6 of your hand sitting there doing nothing for nearly the entire game is a substantial risk and loss of utility?

Sorry I can’t get too upset about 6/5 tigers when I get killed by magically mobile 12/10 tombstones.

2 Likes
#28

Here’s an idea, how about changing her BBS to give +1/1 to a minion on the field or give +2/2 to a minion for one turn. then it would be more similar to roar or primus fist

the reason i put +2 health for a turn is so that you could potentially get some synergy with hailstone prison, sprits of the wild, get some extra effects out of a minion before it dies, or summon a minion on a cleared space

#29

Honestly, to get a 6/5 Saberspine the kara player has to keep the card in hand for 6 consecutive turns and invest a total of 6 mana just to do 6 face damage (12 if the opponent has absolutely no way of removing it without face). Songhai can do this turn 2 with 2 x phenix fire for 4 mana.
How the heck is that even remotely problematic?

I don’t see the problem with rush in general either. 3 mana for 3 damage isn’t exactly thrilling. Its just a bad phenix fire with limited range. Yes it can be buffed but as long as CP doesn’t print a 2 mana give +10 atk card or something like that it isn’t much of a problem either. With frost fire its 6 damage for 5 mana with 2 cards, still far from problematic. The best you can get out of a tiger is using it with 4 mana and Greater Fortitude but even then, a 5/4 for 4 mana, even with rush, isn’t that big of a problem. And this combo is only available to Magmar who already has Elucidator anyway. Really don’t see the big deal here.

2 Likes
#30

As someone mentioned, we need cards that affect opponent’s hand. This could keep Kara somewhat in check. Ie opening gambits like “discard 1 random card, draw 1”, or “replace two random cards”. Deck perfectionists will not like this ofc, slowly building up to a combo and seeing it thwarted, but hand interaction is a pretty basic part of most card games.

3 Likes
#31

Infect or og storm.

1 Like
#32

I presume you’ve missed the latest meta development. OTK Worgen Warriors are all over the ladder right now.

#33

The problem with rush is not the 3 out of hand damage. It is 3 out of hand damage + mobility the card gives you. You can rush to remote threats, get into provoke positions, get off positioning-based spells like holy immolation. And on top of that you can use buffs to deal massive damage and then have a body left on the board for future use. With Phoenix Fire you just deal 3 damage and that’s it. With a tiger you can deal more damage by investing additional cards and have a body the opponent needs to get rid off. And it also gives you more reach.

The card itself isn’t scary. It’s flexibility is. Remember Third Wish Tiger times? Any powerful buff the CP wants to put in will be limited by Tiger being a thing. That is basically the only reason I want to see rush changed.

Oh, and Kara interaction is totally fine, you need to invest heavily to build those huge tigers, plus anybody playing against Kara should anticipate them, so there is no surprise factor.

#34

I don’t think it’s a major imbalance at the moment. I mean, we live in an environment of insane uninterruptible damage the likes of chainable Shadow Nova, Spectral Revenant, Makantor War666 + Rush friends, Spirit of the Wild, and Chakri/Inner Fire/Killing Edge/Mist Dragon Seal/Saberspine Seal/Juxtaposition shenanigans, etc. I mean, it’s…the norm.

If you haven’t got the mad uninterruptible damage and your guns have to ask your opponents “May I?” (textbook example: Aymara Healer), then your faction sucks mucho ass unless you have some kind of ungodly ludicrous cheapass payoffs if your opponent answers “Sigh. Fine.”, to the order of Holy Immolation double Divine Bond for 28 or something.

As CP continues to dismantle uninterruptible damage the likes of Vindicator, chainable Shadow Nova, etc. one-by-one, eventually they will need to take away the Kineticats™, too. One faction in Vetruvicissitude™ is a major imbalance you can live with, because most of the factions are still relatively balanced at the top. When you get to three, four, or god forbid five factions in Vetruvicissitude™, it goes from a major imbalance to a Clusterduck™.

2 Likes
#35

1 Like
#36

After playing pretty much only Vanar since I started and getting destroyed by tactical 10+ damage instant nukes from various classes during basically every season, it feels pretty good to be on the nuking side for once.
But yes, change rush, it’s too binary and limits design-space for all future cards to come. I like the ‘no movement’ idea, since it meshes well with the whole tactical board game thing.

1 Like
#37

I’ve played about 30ish games with a deck very similar to The Scientist’s midrange Kara deck and I can say quite a few games come down to hoarding a tiger or two in hand hoping my opponent gets close enough that I can finish them off.

The problem I have is that Tigers in the typical Kara deck become not so different from Dank Memesis (Dark Nemesis). When DN hits the field it puts a strict timer on the game forcing your opponent to deal with the minion or die within a few turns. What sucks is that Tiger is a 3-mana common and DN is a 7 mana Legendary, yet they both operate almost the same way under these conditions. Somehow I doubt the designer’s intention was for Tiger to be used in this way.

I think the most simple solution is to make Kara’s bbs “Give all minions in your hand +1/+1 for this turn only”. No other bbs in the game is getting anywhere near the kind of value that Kara gets in a 9+ turn game and it’s a little strange to have a general whose bbs is central to their win condition. I feel like it’s backwards to want to change the entire Rush mechanic or even nerf Tiger just because there’s an insanely powerful bbs out there. Just nerf what deserves to be nerfed.

1 Like
#38

Imma letchu finish
But Twin Fang Skorn mag is the best thing ever.
That’s all.

1 Like
#39

That hits the nail on the head! (Is this good English? If not: It’s OK laughing at me. :sunglasses:)

#40

Nope, you hit the nail on the head hehe
Perfect English

#41

The poor nail tho

#42

Not necessarily. Warbeast, Revenant, and Tiger are all infamous for what they can do with Rush. The ability to both move and attack on the turn it’s played is incredibly powerful, more so than many other abilities. Personally speaking, I vote for the idea to make it an ‘or’ option. A minion with Rush can either move OR attack when it’s played. So you have to choose between damage or positioning.

1 Like
#43

It’s so sad when we are almost knocking the Kara, and suddenly she goes not 1 but 2 Tigers with 7/6!

1 Like
#44

CP would have to rework the Ranged keyword also when touching Rush the way you want. A rushed Tiger (Makantor, Elu) is the only way to get rid of ranged minions without dispel. And dispel is really needed for other things - especially when you look at the cards that come with Shimzar (Silverguard Knights from Sky Phalanx, Soboros Death Touch, Beastmaster, Visionar).

1 Like
#45

I’ve just lost to a 2x kara-buffed-tigers in the same round, so in perfect anger and saltiness I can agree on nerfing this combo to the ground. Thanks sirs.