Do trials kill all control styles?


#1

I really like the trials mechanic in theory. But I was fiddling around with some fun decks which weren’t trial decks and I sort of feel like if it isn’t a trial deck is has to be a quick aggro deck…

Since a few of the more popular trials create inevitable win conditions. If you aren’t using a trial yourself, I feel as though you are constantly trying to rush your enemy down to stop their inevitable win.

Am I over simplifying this? Can I get a pick me up? Positive vibes? Or is it Build Trial or Aggro end of story?

I am not discounting other quick burn decks like burn Starhorn, I am just saying it APPEARS to limit creativity in win conditions.


#2

if you think about it all trials except wanderer are control decks. you stall until you get your win condition online then you win. or would it be something like a combo/control/tempo hybrid


#3

I don’t know if you get time for decks that build combo pieces (unless its OTK) . I believe duelyst should be fast. I am just looking at it from a deck builders perspective. I could just be over reacting to the popularity of trails. (like a fad).

I see one (or several trial decks in a row), & my mentality is just “ok now I have to try and kill this guy as fast as possible”…


#4

well that response is natural. generally aggro lists beat control lists, control lists beat midrange, and midrange beat aggro. the fact you have learned that “win asap” is the response to trial decks kinda proves my point that trials are basically control lists themselves.

whether it kills other control styles really depends on the power level of individual decks… which apart from strategos, nemeton, and maybe underlord, are not that strong


#5

Cataclysm has been doing alright for me


#6

Hmm, fair enough. I guess Trials are the control decks. So we now have only 6 control decks. (I’m being overly harsh here).

Thank you for the clarification. If I think of it like trials are the control decks (or a lot of them) & build around that then it doesn’t feel so absolute.

PS: I do wanna add that Strategos feels especially the worst for me. It’s a rush aggro with an inevitable win & resistant to board wipes through many draw options.


#7

No,Trials do not kill all other Control decks. Fault + Kha and Creep Cassyva are both examples of control decks that can compete with Mythrons.


#8

No, Trial doesn’t kill all control decks. Inevitable win cons were already in the game, like Variax. Other control decks weren’t dead then, and they aren’t now.


#9

Actually fault+kha is the deck for me that kills all other control.The ONLY thing that can compete with it lategame are underlord decks that got their trial early or creep cassy that got to stack tons of creep before fault (and she can weaken fault with her own creep).The rest either plays aggro ,handburn or scroll bandit to steal fault unless they want to accept their defeat


#10

Or tempo lyonar

Or ice age wake

Or mantra

Or eight gates

Or artihai


#11

Tempo lyonar is not control
Ice age wake is solid…but keep in mind that fault vet realy likes EMP even after the nerf.If that isnt there vet can sent a bunch khanum kaas to get rid of the walls nearby their general to give them the time to find EMP


#12

I was just pointing out all the other top tier options not mentioned. Although I do concur that fault is the strongest deck right now.


#13

What control decks? Why are we pretending like control is thing and no Trials did kill Control because Control decks are not a real thing in Duelyst except for some fringe case because over the last 2 years

Control Ciphyron
Disruption Faie
Creep Cass
Control Argeon
Meltdown Heal Ziran
Mantra Songhai
Wizard Brome

I might have been a little generous that is really about it and oh yeah Saurian Finality Vaath but that deck bring home the fact what most people in duelyst call control decks are in Duelyst slightly later Mid Range decks…

Trials aren’t really control they are more paint by numbers combo decks.Combo and Control often blur but stall and control aren’t really the same.Control is aiming to stop your opponents game plan until it reach the end game where control is playing the better stuff. Combo is about staying alive and finding the pieces to find its crazy win con.


#14

I’m not quite sure Mantra could be considered control. I’d replace it with Artifact Reva which is more close to control as I understand it.

But tbh, I guess any combo deck in Dooli can be considered control. Mantra can finish game very early with God draw, true, but Artihai has also some combo elements, not once did I get 2-3 SSS on top of full artifact set equipped and finish the game early. Most of the time however it’s going for a long game.

That said, I never met awesome Mantra players on ladder (like Jay, he’s always playing smth else when I meet him). Maybe long game is a mistake for this deck.

What I’m trying to say, these decks are probably not control, cause lots of time you are able to kill your opponent very early, while sometimes not.

EDIT. As a sidenote, I think control deck is basically any deck with a gameplan of winning past 7 mana turn.

EDIT2. And also, have control Argeon ever happened?


#15

You are right I meant more Artifact/Spellhai Songhai than Mantra but they all blur together but real point was deck it sit there with Ghost lighting, twin strikes, OBS,and Painter and not allow you do anything all game.Which is very much the control game plan the deck tends get look at as burn because of last explosive turn and you get hit face a lot with PFs but functions like a control deck .

Yes control argeon happen Kolos played it a lot ,he was successful it and it was one of greediest decks I have seen in Duelyst it played 3 Zirs, Matrydom, Circle of life,etc. I forgot patch what exactly killed it but a major change made it pointless


#16

To me the problem can be expressed as: “What can we do to increase the range of competitive end-game win conditions?”

Trials brought us a new range of win conditions, some of them late, but not all. They effectively pushed some cards further into unplayable zone. Older win condition cards like Khymera, Pandora, etc. were already “slow” by 2017 standards, now they are hopeless for serious competitive play.

If CPG wants to aim for fast games that’s a valid design orientation, let’s move towards that. But it seems a bit of a waste to leave a growing part of the card collection as unplayable relics of the past.
I liked that they buffed some cards in the last patch. They could do that for some of the older late-game heavyweights to increase diversity of competitive win conditions, maybe people wouldn’t see so many similar Trial decks on the ladder.


#17

They don’t even have to do that the late game cards are probably mostly fine.It is defense options to get the late game that is the issue.When Emerald rejuvenator only healed generals we had control decks. As crazy as it sound most decks played 2 healing mystics,2 Emerald Rejuv and that was enough healing to get most faction into the late game.Solid mid game defensive options is probably enough.


#18

We get wanderer is not op for you. Still, tournaments mean something. Wanderer is just too solid for me, especially for a neutral card. The reason is you start with a 6 Mana 7/7, which means you get +1/+1, AND you always have a big body extra card in your hand, even if you play lots of low cost minions. Is it invincible? No. Do lots of games look the same and boring (to play against)? Yes for me.

Edit: comments on wanderer from the winner of last dm tournament. Https://duelystcentral.com/2018/06/13/duelyst-central-spotlight-grandmaster-rhacker/


#19

Wanderer is the least late game oriented of all trial cards. Most agree that it should be classified as midrange, and it can be beaten by non trial control.


#20

Short answer: No.

Especially against Wanderer which is the most dominant trial deck right now Control beats it hard.

As a player who almost exclusively played Control decks for the past few months I can say that they’re far from dead… Just requires 1000 iq.