DeathsAdvocates Fan Made Balance Patch


#122

What if Jaxi is in the middle tile


#123

I dont think sunriser and lucent beam are the main issue with healnar, trinity and cleric are much more problematic imho. The first is the best draw source in the entire game while at the same time another heal proc, allowing you to dump your hand freely, keep the sinergy and ,in the late game, regaining card advantage without loosing much tempo. Cleric on the other hand gives you a hallowed ground (wich could give you multiple procs alone), it allows you to choose where to put it AND a decent body that you can heal too, all of that for just one mana. Putting those two card to 5 and 2 mana respectively would be my suggestion.

Also your vitriols suggestion makes the card even stronger, if you want to eliminate the rng (wich in a lot of case protecs the opponent) than tha damage should be 1 per proc


#124

Heres my break down of your suggestions.

Neutral

I agree with a lot of this changes bar abju, rok and decimus. Abju and rok are fine, they are made to fit spell heavy deck and thats all. I would just change Boulder hurl so it cant target the general. The decimus change is a bit risky imho; decispike would deal 8 damage instead of 9 but then starhon bbs and gaze would be 5 and 7 damage respectively and you would take 5 during your turn if unanswered. I dont like it, instead i would nerf tectonic spike (see the magmar section).
Also white widow needs a stat nerf if you remove the rng aspect, 3/3 maybe.

Lyonar

I already give my suggestion regarding healnar, I agree with the other changes bar 8 mana titan, i think the card is fine at 7 mana, requires a board set up and its counterd by emp so i dont see the reason for a nerf.

Songhai

Here i disagree with a lot of changes. Spell abuse and burn is part of songhai identity and i think this is fine if those cards are balanced. The changes that i like are mass flight, spear, twilight fox, bangle and mist dragon seal (increase to 3 spaces). I would simply up the cost of juxta to 1 mana.

Vetruvian

Exhuming sand rework. Tiles should have an effect when an ally/enemy is on top of them, not beeing an unlimited value machine. My suggestion would be “enemy on this tile can move only one space”. This would create a new sabotage archetype based on positioning and it would be very interesting imho. This is how i would change current exhuming sand cards

Arid unmaking-2 mana- Create an exhuming sand tile under an enemy. Draw a card
Sandswhirl reader-4 mana 3/4-enemies on exhuming sand tiles have -2 attack
Cataclismic Fault-6 mana-Create an exhuming sand tile under all enemies. Enemies on exhuming sand tiles cannot move (dispellable on general)

With that changes i think vet would be fine.

Abyssian

I agree with most of this changes. When it comes to Variax, if you decrease the cost to 7 you have to increase the awesome bbs cost to 4 or something like that or we will be in rotb spot. Lilithe should not choose were tokens spawn. If you change crescendo ( i really like your suggestion) then soul shatter pact and priestess should stay as they are.

Magmar

Mixed feelings here. I like the dreadnought, crysalist, leviathan, oropsisaur and fulmination change. Elder to 6 mana looks Dangerous cause flash is a thing. Speaking of flash i think the card should be nerfed a little bit, right now it could allow really insane plays. My suggestions would be:

Flash reincarnation-0 mana-if the next card you play is a minion it cost 2 less and it takes 2 damage. it cant move till the end of your next turn.
Keeps the strenght of the card but the movement limitation force you to position the minion properly or it will be useless on your next turn.
Ragebinder-remove rebirth.
This card literally powercreeps veteran silithar, by removing rebirth it makes it good in golem decks but not a staple anymore
Ripper-no more celerity.
If you want reduce the burst off eggmar this is the way. Morin khur/egg morph/inceptor are fine.
Tectonic spikes-remove the damage on the enemy general.
The strenght of the card is the double side draw. This version keeps that aspect and the punish on your general for that play but it makes the combo with decimus a lot weaker (6 damage vs 9).
Homeostatic rebuke rework-This card is one of the worst card ever printed in duelyst imho (4 mana-remove an army of 10/10 with no drawback, wtf). I would rework it making it a self harm tool but not a removal. I donr know how thou

Vanar

I never play vanar so i trust your suggestion, unlimited range for ilena looks scary thou.


#125

My core fundamentals that I am adamant about are reducing RNG and Highrolls at a compeitive level as much as possible, removing polarizing effects, removing large amounts of uncounterable burn, and avoiding nerfs in favor of reworking things to have counterplay.

I targeted sunrise and beam because these are the things that cause incredible burst/burn, and removing large uncounterable burn is one of my core fundamentals. Targeting the core of her kit would just nerf the Archtype as a whole which I did not want.

I thought it would make vit much weaker cus the opponent can now choose to protect his minions with his face or vice versa. Plus again I am avoiding strait up nerfs as much as I can, and this coupled with the other two changes I thought would be fine. If I am missing the mark I am open to adjusting or targeting other things. Same with Widow.

Abjucator has to change due to several of my core fundamentals. I am open as to how, but the ability to reduce a hand of spells causes to much abuse.

My initial thought was to make boulder hurl only target minions, but this would be a strait up nerf and make it just bad which is against my core fundamentals. Instead I made it good but no longer abuseable.

Going after Spikes would just make Starhorn much weaker as a whole which is against my fundamentals. My change to Decimus was to remove the highroll abuse but keep a similar level of power, if I missed the mark or if five is to much I am open to adjustments, would 4 damage be better? I’m concerned it may be to weak at that point.

I think titan needs some sort of change due to its polarizing nature not it’s power level and the fact that all the current top decks are changing. If a cost change is not right I am open to suggestions but something needs to happen, if not a nerf some sort of rework.

Songhai still has plenty of burn. But I am removing the excessive amounts of uncounterable burn and or large uncounterable burst as that is core to my fundamentals. That must happen, but as to how I am open to suggestions.

As for the teleports. At three spaces I would be concerned there would be little difference between that and infinite due to how small the board is so instead I opted for boosting the cards powers. If three spaces but weaker base would be healthier I am open to changing it.

Your Vet and Magmar ideas I very strongly disagree with. Not only are you advocating for heavy handed nerfs that move things from strong to weak which is against my core fundamentals, you are also making suggestions that could destroy otherwise healthy archetypes.

Variax barely competes with stuff like Fault, Wanderer, Finality, and Walls these days. During ROTB double dark fire (which I addressed) and a lack of other strong lategame decks was the issue not Variax it’s self. From seven to eight moved it from goood to bad. But I am open to 4 mana BBs.

I am adamant about changing pact due to its polarizing nature and giving them compensation elsewhere. And removing RNG for Lilith is important to me, if that would be to strong perhaps fixed places to summon them?

Ilena is still the weakest general in the game and it was the easiest boost I could think of, but perhaps I am over doing it due to also buffing the stun kit all around, so perhaps I could remove that.

@Polynucleotide At that point it would be random. Manipulateable RNG of low variance is ok.


#126

Decimus (on live) already sort of kills you if you don’t answer it, but most people hold spikes for decimus and decimus for spikes and when they assemble this they blast you for 9, at that point it’s at 7 mana and you expect your opponent to have drawn into an answer off the spikes or to have been holding it in anticipation. And if they don’t remove it, they might follow it up next turn with BBS for 2 more, another Spikes is always a threat, but doesn’t always happen.

I like the idea of the change, making it once per turn, but 5 damage is way too high, you play it at 5 mana and dome them for 5, if they are unfortunate enough to be unable to answer they take another 5 when they pass their turn, then on your turn you 5 them again, you’ve just wiped 60% of their HP. Literally your opponent has 2 turns to answer it or it deals 25 damage by itself. What is that!??


#127

Would four be a bit better? At that point just ranged minions start to compete with it plus have the ability to trade. But a Rogue Warden with Pseduo rush is pretty solid.


#128

honestly I think the best solution to decimus is for it to only deal damage when cards are added to your opponents hard, this stops to flash deci double spikes highroll, and also affords some counterplay to the damage by keeping a full hand.


#129

Feels like it would be pretty weak at that point though as just with BBs its very underwhelming, and now it will almost not work with spikes at all.


#130

yeah probably, but if they do ahve a full hand to play around decimus then you can use your bbs without a downside, so it isn’t all bad. I can’t think of a way to tone down deci without it going too far tbh :smiley:


#131

To think it was born as a tech against songhai and now it produces almost the same burn :smiley:


#132

I agree with @improbableblob in regards to positioning. It matters a lot and always will. And this also ties into what @niklaren and @owlbeastmd talk about that the Mantra or Artihai decks aren’t as uninteractive as people think or claim. There are a lot of important and subtle decisions to make which are not that obvious to the opponent because it rarely happens on board. But that is not uninteractive. I would say the only uninteractive decks were the DDoS decks. Skipping your turn is uninteractive :smiley:

And @1pancakess is right too, not Wanderer itself is the problem, the stuff around it is (e.g. Flash). Wanderer is a great concept and brings a lot of unused cards back on the board. Everybody is also able to add a little bit flavour too with all the 1 ofs which is fun in my opinion.


#133

I do actually LOVE playing Wanderer Swarm Lilithe (yeah, I’m also a sinner). Where else can I play Kamenrider, Shadow Stalk and even Shadow Watcher :crazy_face:

But Reva’s and Ragnora’s BBS are too powerful with Wanderer buff. I won’t argue Lilithe’s isn’t, but at least you can run away from it :slight_smile:


#134

At the rate we’re calling for ripper nerf, the cards eventually going to become a 2/0 rebirth


#135

FOREVER CAUGHT IN A CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH, THE DEATHWATCH DREAM.

But really. A 3/1 Rebirth & can move 2 additional spaces should suffice.


#136

Make it 2/1 rebirth and we’re set. I dont get why it has to be so superior to other bbs


#137

Obelysks really are fine, but as this is my dream patch I think they could be better.

A high skill cap with many decisions on the executing players part has nothing to do with wether it is healthy or interactive. This is a board game, it should use the board. Being balanced and having a high skill cap has nothing to do with whether it is healthy or not. IMO it is not healthy and is my exact definition of non interactive. DDOS is just strait up cheating/exploit abuse. I have never claimed spellhai had a low skill cap, nor have I been complaining about it being to strong, in fact my goal is to make it stronger but more interactive.

I find highlander to be a problem due to the high variance. As a good noob tube deck its fine, but high variance really does not have place in the competitive scene on top of the card also being to powerful. IMO Ramp its self is generally fine, if a card is a problem with ramp that generally means its a problem with the card its self not ramp.

@zanestheargent @melkorita
Because it is supposed to be high risk high reward. Your changes not only make it very generic and remove cool combos, but also move it from to strong to very weak. By removing the out of hand combos and toning it down slightly that should solve the issues. To remove celerity it would need to be summoned as a minion and not an egg to still be good, and I actually love combos and big flashy plays as long as they have counterplay.


Slight balance suggestion
#138

There are so many problems with wanderer imho…
It’s not a trial at all, the other cards have to put some kind of effort during the game to complete the trial… With wanderer you just need to reach 6 mana…

Which leads to the 2nd problem, being the fact that it can be flashed (which is just an overall stupid card since it leads to other silly interaction like with juggernaut or oropisaur) or reduced by dark sacrifice, and dealing with him on turn 2 is hard if not impossible for many decks.

3rd problem is that scales too well with some general, ofc rag in particular since dealing with a swarm of 4/2 celerity and rebirth is just a pain in the ass

4th problem is that forces you to create inconsistent deck which goes against all the principles of deckbuilding… I mean sure it can be fun, but you could just play gauntlet instead


#139

But why? I mean, sure it has 1 hp when you summon it, but so do lilithe and reva’s bbs aswell, they still die to pings, but the turn after you dont need to face the wrath of god if they stick 1 turn


#140

Lillith gets two and is in a faction where two bodies is a big deal. Revas has range and does not have to trade/position well to be good. Others have strong synergies/dont die to pings.

The smaller a nerf the better, or you fall into the usual trap of overpowered into unplayable. Small changes can have a massive impact. Start small do more if needed.


#141

See deathy, i’ll both agree in you that keeping a good skill cap is nice and salute you in the quest to seek it, but really, is it really so much of a problem simplifying some traits and ‘killing’ certain combos if seeking to first attain a stable ground to then set up the flashy stuff up? Both your and our ways solves the issues but under different values and for differing goals. I rather see Magmar getting some sort of enchantment that gives it momentary Celerity (and somehow limit its usage on their megabeasts) than seeing the bugger getting molded entirely around the ‘buff it then double blow’ combo.

I’d even argue that Wanderer should actually continue as a great noob tube, but changed in how it manifests, something in the guidelines of Reliquarian where it simply magnifies to stupid levels some faction trait we find a common design space for it to work.