dude. Your entire t1 set gets wrecked by boneswarm in a vet meta. Also, blade is crap vs p2 kaleos. Sorry, but it just irks me to see people running minions lists like this after 2 years of most s players determining that 9+ minions is a must for any minion list. Think about how often you get blown out by not having a good opener. All the 8 drops in the world cannot stop a t2 blowout, irrespective if it was a zendo or decispikes which killed 3 turns later.
First of all your being sort of rude about something that is in a rough draft form that is also only theory craft, next I did not call it aggro, and lastly both him and I have said we are skeptical of it actually being good already, so you just coming in and shouting this is bad is completely uncalled for. Instead you should be making suggestions on how to improve it.
Your also taking the “nine opening plays” thing super out of context. That is the number of opening plays you need to have the highest chance of having an opening play without it eating into your decks consistency. As for whether those opening plays are two drop globe contesting minions or not completely depends on the deck, and there are also many decks that will either rock more like six, or more like twelve depending on what they are doing. Some decks dont need the early game tempo, some decks dont care about globes, some decks are focused on globes and early tempo.
Next having a “minion” list, or a “spell list” is not really a thing unless you have something that specifically interacts with only one of those types. In the case of phantasm how it interacts with minions means you want LESS minions in your deck, and or only ideal targets for it, which two drops are not.
Ok so it gets wrecked by bone swarm? Play around that, or at worst at least thats what they spent their turn doing instead of actualy contesting the board. Ok blade is bad in some matchups…but its great in others.
And also getting blown out only tends to happen if your deck is early game, and or you just have to skip turn one completely. The quality of the opener is not often relevant, and in fact IMO I tend to find openers that are lower quality but support your overall gameplan and or are actually useful in the lategame are way better then things with slightly better bodies.
Indeed if my opponent’s p2t1 play is Bone Swarm, I either gain card advantage or they just left the middle mana spring all for me to grab. Sure they might be hyper aggro, but for example double Flameblood is 6 damage for roughly the same tempo (doesn’t clear a 2-drop but develops an extra body compared to Bone Swarm)
What if, and i know this is pretty out there so stay with me here, but what if I played a 2 drop AND Boneswarm instead of these telegraphed bad plays you’re suggesting?
Also, even if decks don’t care about mana globes, that doesn’t mean a smart player won’t try take them from decks that do. This is particularly relevant given the prevalence of brome and vet in the current meta, as you likely will lose if you allow them to build a lead via ramp.
Aggro / midrange is irrelevant, though I do concede I misquoted. Minion builds are minion builds and should be built accordingly. Only magmar, songhai, and MAYBE certain control builds can get away with less than 8 t1 minions. Finally, ignore the influence of skipping t1 at your own peril. Think hard about your past couple losses and consider whether it was that 7/8/9 mana turn that killed you or if it was the breathing room you gave your opponent t1 that enabled this cascade of events. Unless you stack a heavy removal suite (or if you’re running mantra), you will be playing catch up the entire game. In the case of the above decks, that likely means antisynergy with chakram.
Stay with me here: They play 2 drop, then Bone Swarm. In most cases, I haz now 5 cards, they haz now 4 cards. Card. Advantage.
fyi I’m just messing around too
Hey @deathsadvocate I just recently tried a budget version of your mech mill deck based on what you recommended to unreason. Anyway, I took out the golem package and am playing a list that goes like this
maybe not so budget…
Anyway, the thing is obviously unoptimized but a ton of fun to play so far. I need some advice on the deck. How do I play it? Any tips to playing it?
Also, where do I drop mechazor? In the middle of everything, or at the corner of the board? I’ve so far been dropping him just a bit behind the enemy general because I don’t want him to get removed, nor do I want a 6/6 at other end of the board. Should I just drop him right in the middle?
And playing kujata and seismoid, should I always wait to get a seismoid on hand before I drop the kujata, or is it worth dropping kujata anyways so I can get something out of him? Also should I be dropping both in a remote corner, or do I keep it barely close enough to trade?
And(lol there’s more) should I be cutting rebuke for plasma storm’s, or do rebuke’s work better in the current meta? It’s practically useless against swarm brome unless there’s a sol pontiff on board. But since the deck has no other removal other than the rebuke’s, which is more universal should I be keeping it?
Well that was quite a bit of questions, but I mean I really want to try laddering with this thing and it’s crazy fun to play when you abuse seismoid and draw three or four helms.
Thanks in advance.
I cant say I approve of skipping the golem package. Without silver/omega there is little reason to play Metaltooth. The golem package would likely serve you much better then buffs/tooth.
If you want to stick to running buffs and tooth, then id say to swap over to ragnora and add eggmorph.
Unless you simply don’t have a third makantor, rebuke, or lavaslasher I advise against skipping them unless your going a really dedicated combo version with silvers, omegas, or ragnora.
Rebuke is to good to skip and its an amazing catchall/it combos really well with frenzy. I highly recomend you read the mechazor deck write ups in the master thread for tips/tricks/and card choices.
As for where to play mechazor it depends on the match up. If you expect ranged dispel/transform then you want to play mechazor out of reach but not so far he can not get back into the action if he loses ranged. If you have rebuke in hand/you need to body block to survive then dropping him in melee is better, although ideally you play him and rebuke on the same turn. If neither of those situations are the case then usually the farthest/safest position for him his best.
Well I’ve revised the list a bit. I’m trying ragnora, and she works wonders with rippers and fortitude. I just crafted a few egg morphs and took out Taygete since she’s usually a dead card. I’ll see how it works. Thanks for the tips on mechazor
As a player who takes several month breaks from the game, I always appreciate these DA master threads to reacquaint myself with new styles. Thumbs up! I have been especially loving the Faye wall deck and the new-age Cassy creep deck variations you have on there.
Aw right, tempo Argeon is back! And with a few weapons I haven’t seen in it’s arsenal before. I just now crafted my third Aperion’s claim, I got lucky enough to pull two and had the good sense to not disenchant them just in case they became relevant. I’m gonna go run this deck now.
So here’s another idea I’ve been kicking around: Is it even remotely workable to make a deck for Lili that is pure stallout until Variax, then makes infinite wraiths for game?
This list is just me rolling my face on the keyboard, I make no claims to this working, and it probably doesn’t. Really, I’d be happy for any solid, survivable list with triple Variax, the other cards chosen aren’t important to me as long as they work.
Edit: Massively overhauled the originally posted list, took out most of the healing and stuffed a bajillion answers in. I think this one probably works better. Better being the operative word. It probably still doesn’t really work, I dunno.
It certainly can work, and its been awhile since I tried. I fear it will have similar issues to Xor decks of just being to slow. However it just may have the tools it needs to be a good deck again, the meta is a bit slow, you can pack enough healing to deal with burn/aggro, enough control to have an answer to anything, and HOPEFULLY Variax can compete with the recent lategame monsters of Wanderer, Finality, Titan, and Stratageos.
One big thing is you will notice I am not including anything beyond six mana in the deck, even going for bender over EMP, because you always want to be able to play and BBS. Course EMP is strong enough to never be a bad pick either, but IDK if it fits here.
Your list is on the rigtht track but its a bit messy with a lot of 2ofs and not enough two drops. But something like this could really have some potential:
Thanks for polishing the concept. Do you feel that desolators lose some of their usual value in a list like this? The part of their opening gambit where they deal two damage might as well not exist for this deck, since it’s win with Variax or lose. For a similar reason, what about emerald rejuvenators? The healing they give to the opponent is largely a nonissue here, and a 4/4 for four who heals your general for four sounds like an amazing deal on paper.
Also, what would come out to cram spheres of darkness in for Unlimited? The gibbets?
Desolators are still just to good, and will usualy result in more healing over a long game then anything else. Plus the artifact ping/card advantage is important. This is not like Doom or something where damage does not matter, especially considering Variax is not the lategame monster it once was as there is a lot of other scary stuff now. Plus winning off of chakram and mid game is certainly possible.
As for rejuv this is definitely the type of deck he can really excel in. But that’s a bit of a meta call, I think there’s is currently enough healing to play the sustain game, but if the meta moved in more of a burn direction Rejuv could be perfect, but I do not currently see anything I would want to cut for it, but it’s certainly not a bad pick if you want to try and fit it.
As for Sphere inklin, Gibbet, or going to 2x on stuff are all options.
Done some testing. Stands up well to aggro, burn, vet, strat, most wanderer…but it sort of rolls over and dies to Reva in general as heartseekers, particularly wander variants, are just rough on us. And I suspect Vaath and titan would be similarly brutal.
Trying out a maev Version:
Bleh, maev version just isnt good.
Just lost to this a while ago, gg! Been a while since I encountered a Variax list, and I vastly underestimated Gibbet and Chakram. Lightbender was also a surprise that I didn’t plan for. Keep up the great work!
How does the Variax end game fare against the recent Destinies? I have a feeling that Underlord Xor’Xuul beats Variax, Wanderer can possibly be dealt with, but no idea about the others. What do you think?
I think DFS + Variax on 6 mana is the only way for Variax to work currently
Its possible to make Variax work without DFS in gold at least. Was playing around with it near the end of last season. The trouble is the ability to survive and heal through the midgame which pre-nerf Kalaino use to do quite well. But now the only real option is Munch for acting as a heal and removal, which often doesn’t do the same amount of work that Kalaino did. With the lack of good creep generators, also makes it hard to pull off.