Core Set and Rotation Changes


#122

Undoubtably. Just because a game mechanic rotates out doesn’t mean it will never come back. Shadow Creep will inevitably come back since it is an iconic Abyssian mechanic.


#123

well, like hearthstone, rotation means to me only one thing
/quit, it was a pleasure


#124

Wait, hold up. When Immortal Vanguard rotates out, WILL THE 6 NEW GENERALS ROTATE OUT?


#125

The new generals will not rotate


#126

phew
thanks for the quick save


#127

Wait, I think everybody here is missing the main point of the article

There was a Warmasters tribe?


#128

There were three of them. Skywing, Arrow Wister, and Golden Justicar. Keyword enablers basically.


#129

Very impressive changes - looks like I’m going to have to start playing again :slight_smile:

For veteran players, being able to disenchant Bloodbound Ancients cards is huge, as all those legendaries were basically obtained at a very reduced price. This is more than enough to balance out the rotations and everything else being aimed at new players, which is definitely needed for the game.

The balance changes are fantastic - hitting many of the games long-term problem cards. Awesome job guys.


#130

So, “Rotation” in this context actually means “Deletion”?

I expected, given the meaning of the word, that old sets would occasionally be rotated in, as well as out. Like, newest handful of sets, plus a rolling set of two old expansions are allowed, or something. But, you’re saying that it’s standard in (digital) ccgs just to remove sets from standard constructed play, and never re-add them?

Is it just me, or does that strike anyone else as all kinds of stupid and wasteful, in addition to making players feel ripped off?


#131

Well at least we can enjoy the last 3-4 months of proper Duelyst before it is warped. This unnecessary elimination (rotation it ain’t) of a bunch of classic cards is the last nail in the coffin for veteran players.


#132

Agree, it is ridiculous.


#133

No. CPG is introducing a Standard format that only includes the most recent sets from the last two years. Others set are moved to an “eternal” format where they can still be used. Cards that have been rotated out of Standard could be reintroduced at a later point.

Thanatos has confirmed that will be multiple formats that can be played come 2018. He cannot divulge any more details at this time. Any cards you have you will still be able to use.


#134

I agree with a lot of what you’ve said, but I have some things to say about your choices. It’s important to distinguish between the cards that prop up an archetype on account of their power and cards that define an archetype based on their mechanics.

Lucent Beam and Sun Wisp are sort of filler cards for their respective archetypes that could be replaced by new additions. Afterblaze (and Ironcliffe Heart to an extent) is an important card for Brome and also for establishing Zeal synergies as a thing beyond “this card is pretty strong next to your General.”

Katara, Battle Pando, and Ki Beholder are all strong cards, but not archetype enablers. They’re just slightly powercreeped versions of things that already existed, and won’t harm Songhai in the long run when they leave. Crescent Spear is an archetype enabler for Spell Damage Controlhai, and Onyx Jaguar is a great enabler for another Controlhai build focused on movement procs. A serious shame that these two unique cards are going to be lost.

Falcius and Pax are strong, but only because their power levels are so high. Psychic Conduit was another important card for Cypheron, though the expansion will probably remedy this. Whisper of the Sands is definitely a central card for Aggro Obelysks, and a huge loss to the archetype. Spinecleaver was equally crucial for Control Artivet.

The loss of Abyssian’s Creep cards is not actually that bad: Obliterate and Azalea were limiting design space in terms of Creep generation and utilization. Ooz has long been a staple in Abyssian not because it generated Creep but because it was the only decent Abyssian 2 drop. Klaxon is a sad loss for Dying Wish decks and a solid card all around that never did nothing wrong, but its not a major loss. Same for Gor and Sphere; solid, fun cards, but not game breaking. The WORST for Abyssian is the loss of Lurking Fear. Such a fun archetype down the drain if this card isn’t salvaged. (hint hint Counterplay: Wraithling Fury isn’t doing much in the Epic spell slot)

Magmar’s loss of Moloki is MASSIVE. Even without Gro, Growmar could’ve continued on as long as they didn’t lose Moloki. Morin Khur and Wild Inceptor were also important cards, although not quite as gamebreaking to lose as the Huntress; I’m certain Ragnora will have the pressure come expansion time to make a non-combo based Egg deck viable.

Finally, Vanar loses… not much besides Winter’s Wake. Wall Vanar will lose their big enabler, which is sad, but Vespyr synergies will bounce back.

IMO, the major losses this expansion are definitely Moloki Huntress and Lurking Fear.

Archetypes getting neutered: Combo Eggmar, Control Artivet, Spell Damage Controlhai, Onyx Jaguarhai, Growmar, Lurking Abyss, Wall Vanar, Creep Abyss, Aggro Dervet, anything with Battlepets (obviously)


#135

I’m out. I should have left this game a long time ago. Thank you CPG for finally knocking some sense in me.


#136

I read the post. I understand and accept the idea of (what I thought to be) set rotation, since it solves some of the combo-problems inherent to generating an indefinitely large number of new, interesting cards. Having a finite number of old and new sets mixed together seemed like an option that was reasonable, refreshing, and fun for the players, while at the same time remaining profitable for the company. New expansions come out all the time, but older / core players still get some (standard-mode) use out of their collection.But, the permanent removal of cards from the game, even if only for the standard format, seems ridiculous.

Previously, I only vaguely understood why some people were so adamantly against set “rotation”, and said it was a cash-grabbing scheme.

I understand that perspective now.


#137

As someone who has played since steam release, I’m excited for rotation/elimination. Keeping the standard format to <1000 cards keeps the game friendly for new players. If cards from every set every released are relevant, it massively benefits older players at the expense of newer players. And it means each new expansion shakes up the meta. Not equally, since the first expansion of the year will always be the biggest. But I don’t want each new expansion to be “what 10 cards do I need to stay competitive,” I want it to be “what new decks am I making to stay competitive.”

And leaving in old cards not only hurts new players, but f2p players as well. Imagine you’re a new player. You just finished the unlocking all the factions in single player. You decide you want to make a vespyr/creep/dervish/grow/w/e deck and you look up a list. And the list says you need 13 different cards from 8 different expansions. 3 of them are legendaries. 4 are epic. And the legendaries/epics are spread across 5 different sets. That’s intimidating. So yes, rotation devalues the collections of new players. But that was going to happen anyway (only 39 cards in a deck. New expansions have to replace some cards to justify their existence.) So rotation is kind of a necessary evil to keep the game (and player base) healthy.


#138

Why you gotta pass over my man Unseven…

For anyone confused, all cards that are not Core, Ancient, or Unearthed Prophecy will NEVER again be playable on ranked ladder come 2018 expansion.

When the first 2019 expansion drops, Ancient, Unearthed Prophecy and Vanguard also leave forever. Only expansion packs released in the current year and the year before are playable at any given time, plus core.


#139

Adding another format as option for people to play isn’t the same removing cards from the game. The current Duelyst format that we’ve experienced since launch is going to remain the same. A never ending accumulation of sets and interactions for players to experiment in.

The only difference is now there is going to be an additional format with a smaller card pool. The new card pool isn’t as intimidating to new players and it makes power creep easier to control. It will be getting a bit more support when it’s first introduced but only because CPG wants to make sure it succeeds.

If you’re worried that your collection will become irrelevant or that the Classic Duelyst format won’t get any love than PM @ThanatosNoa and other CPG staff and let them now that you’re worried. Let them know that like the all-sets-included format is to you and that you don’t want it to fall by the wayside in favor of exclusive support of the Standard ladder.

Seriously. Politely contact the community involvement staff and tell them your concerns. CPG has always listened to its player base. A lot of people are going to have a lot of strong opinions on the changes moving forward. Let CPG know of them so that they can do their best to make Duelyst successful.


#140

never say never bb


#141

i a happy boi, i didn’t realize this

i will make many a meme