Concealing Shroud analysis


#1

Concealing Shroud is the kind of card that negates all choices in a match, turning a good high-level brawl (Diamond / S-Rank) into a boring, one-sided snoozefest.

On turn 4, I had surrounded my Vanar opponent with 2x 6/6 Wraithlings and 1x 7/7 Variax - enough to end the match, except that my opponent spent the next three turns laughing at them thanks to Concealing Shroud, all the while hitting my general with 20+ rush and direct damage.

I didn’t draw dispel and my opponent had an empty board, so I had literally 0 meaningful choices for three straight turns. I spent that time composing this analysis and picking something else to play for the evening.

(edit: no tantrums, per mods request)


#2

I find it unlikely you had no meaningful choices, perhaps in the future you should account for the possibility of multiple concealing shrouds and play more defensively with your general as there are decks in which it is a key component. :slight_smile:


#3

So you were deny the victory with your overpowered card and think Vanar’s overpowered card is too much.The gaming community makes me laugh sometimes.

Every faction has broken stuff even Vet but keeping it real I much prefer Shroud which can be countered to Varaix which doesn’t have a counter other than smorcing them down and praying they don’t pull Kelaino or good minion to sustain themselves


#4

Yeah… like your turn 2 or turn 4 Variax is not a boring, one-sided snoozefest… You’re just too unlucky to draw any answer, dude :slight_smile: it’s just a goddamn rare card.


#5

While it’s unfortunate to have not drawn any dispel in 3 turns, I won’t be one to say Concealing Shroud is too strong. It’s 2 mana to avoid damage for 1 turn, but without developing a board, healing, clearing, or dealing damage.

A weakness of ramping Variax is that you use a good chunk of your hand to do it, meaning that Concealing Shroud is just a way of punishing players who put all their faith into the Awesome BBS and have no answers in hand to the card.


#6

play more defensively with your general

Keeping the opposing general 6 columns away and surrounded doesn’t help against direct damage.

every faction has broken stuff

Yep, I don’t like the broken stuff, but we’re stuck with what the game designers chose. However, most of the broken stuff (a) involves lots of interaction, and (b) ends the match quickly. Concealing Shroud does neither.

Varaix which doesn’t have a counter

There a bajillion counters. Just about every match in which I land turn 3 Varaix still manages to be different.

You’re just too unlucky to draw any answer

Ephemeral Shroud is the only answer to Concealing Shroud in an Abyssian deck, and I didn’t draw it. (Ok, I could also run Lightbenders for a total of six dispel in an aggro deck, but I have none.) Most of the broken top-tier strategies have numerous successful counter-strategies; Concealing Shroud has exactly one.

2 mana to avoid damage for 1 turn, but without developing a board, healing, clearing, or dealing damage

2 mana is hardly enough to hinder significant damage-dealing in turns 3-5 (as demonstrated by my opponent). You don’t have to care about anything except direct damage when you’re going to kill your opponent before you run out of Concealing Shrouds.

A weakness of ramping Variax is that you use a good chunk of your hand to do it

It only requires two cards over a normal Abyssian ramp - Variax and a single Darkfire Sacrifice. I had 3 cards in hand on turns 4-6 and replaced every single turn of the match, but I wasn’t lucky enough to draw the single answer to Concealing Shroud.


#7

If you knew what deck they were playing, you’d know they had tigers. You didn’t have them surrounded or didn’t think they’d play tigers, so you didn’t make a wall. Either way, this is an exaggeration with demonstrable player error involved; discounting minion placement as not being “meaningful choices” is to misunderstand the game in its entirety.

If you see Faie, why aren’t you digging for and holding these cards all game? Almost every Faie plays Shroud, and if it’s such a large problem (especially considering having Shroud dispelled off of you is most of the time an instant loss) then you should be playing for the possibility of it occurring. Another exaggerated claim.

This is pretty silly; even if they did have lots of Shrouds, it’s expensive in terms of cards and in terms of mana to keep it up for more than one or two turns. As soon as Alcuin is introduced into the mix, your turns wind up being Shroud > Alcuin > BBS or a 2-mana minion. On top of that, if the game was so close that dealing marginal damage for two turns closes it out, what makes this worse than a proper finisher?


#8

I feel you, OP. Variax is uninteractive and unfun.

Just kidding. Been in the same spot as you are. There are very few answers to Concealing Shroud and occasionally a game comes around where you are doing everything right, yet are left with absolutely no chance.

And to all the nay-sayers: get a grip. Telling him he played wrong because he could have positioned his General at the far side of the battlefield, or build a wall with minions, etc. is completely ridiculous. While that might have helped him in this particular spot, it would’ve been the wrong play in every other imaginable situation. Just because there’s a theoretical correct play in hindsight doesn’t mean it would have been the correct play during the game. The correct play is the play that gives you the highest probability of winning given the information at hand – not the one that would have ended up winning in hindsight because of some unlikely sequence of play.


#9

ppl…

I did retreat my general to the far side of the battlefield
but that didn’t prevent significant damage

I did build a wall
but there are infinite ways to poke holes in walls

I know the build, I searched for the counter, I didn’t get it
and the odds were high that I wouldn’t get it, because there’s only one


#10

Maybe we have different definition of counters either way you are complaining about

A.Freak occurrence of him drawing all his shrouds
B.Freak occurrence of you not drawing removal
C.Freak occurrence of you not drawing Kelaino to heal

While playing a deck puts every faction on 2 turn clock that can’t be countered.Once Varaix is out you can’t stop strategy of Big wrathlings.If you don’t get my main point many people think Varaix is bs playstyle and simple put your defending your bs style to go after some else bs style is ironic, basically if you were a Vanar player you would be defending shroud as fair countereable strategy.

Everyday week I am picking to play against deck with concealing shroud because holding silence that almost always will insure my win is pretty easy thing to do. While burning down Varaix Lilthe before it can set up is actually hard and can’t be countered with one card.So what if you have carry one specific card to counter it is not every concealing shroud is a case of life and death.


#11

How did he kill you in 3 turns than?

Assuming it was 3 9 mana turns:

Shroud + Alcuin + bbs = 6 mana already
If he adds cryptographer + bbs that would ve 9 mana and only 4 damage for it.

Shroud + 3 blood warlock + bbs = 9 mana 11 damage
Obviously this can’t be used more than once and tge probability of having 3 shrouds and 3 warlocks on same 3 turns is incredibly low.

He can’t play chroud + meltdown + bbs as it would be 10 mana.

Rush minions wouldn’t reach you if you have wall of 5/5 between you and stand far, unless he used 3 mana for enfeeble and something else to clear a path.

What you describe seems like godly hand on his part and probably mistake on yours. Hardly the average game and says nothing about balance in general.

What you could do:

  1. Play kelaino and heal. She can easily outheal fae bbs. Even if she dispells it you can still heal some on the turn you played her and he spends mana clearing her.
  2. kill her minions and surround her when shrouded.
  3. have lightbender in deck. It is a must if you want to spamm variax against fae. You can just dispell enfeeble and rebuff wraithlings for lethal.

Seriously don’t complain about OP things if you spam variax.


#12

You can? I thought all effects that set a minion’s or General’s stats to a definite value can’t be dispelled.


#13

Well when i spammed variax, some fae played enfeeble against me. BBS didn’t buff the enfeebled wraithlings so i dispelled them with lightbender, rebuffed and just killed her next turn. It was probably the only time i played against fae with variax.

It does leave their abilities active so it isn’t a transform.


#14

many people think Varaix is bs playstyle and simple put your defending your bs style to go after some else bs style is ironic

I don’t have much of a collection, so I don’t have the luxury of choosing my bs. :slight_smile:

But I do manage to have quick and evenly-matched brawls against Magmar, Lyonar, and Vetruvian bs. I’m not defending any Diamond / S-Rank builds, just complaining that the Vanar bs is slow and boring.


#15

I do think some responses are too harsh to OP. @nickDigger says it well: it’s not reasonable to assume three Concealing Shrouds in a row in a game where players tend to diversify their hand down to a single copy of any card at one time. The scenario described is not one you can realistically prepare for, so I can understand some frustration. On the whole though, I agree that is a case of very uncommon bad luck (three Shrouds & no dispel drawn), and that this possibility isn’t a problem in a game like Duelyst where all kinds of unfairness abounds (by design btw), of which Variax is indeed an example in many cases ;).

Good luck getting your head level again, OP. See you on ladder.


#16

Shroud is def a really good card. Is It op? No but maybe its undercosted, i think It should cost 3 mana.
If there’re cards that need to be nerfed are tectonic spikes and entropic gaze. And lilithe awesome bbs is borderline op, a small Nerf would definately good.


#17

It seems to me to u were to Cocky never underestimate your opponent. This was the loss u deserved AND NEEDED


#18

I think anyone whose played the game can recount a time where the opponent has consistently drawn all the answers they needed whilst you found none of your own despite you initially having the upper hand.

Sounds like you were pretty unlucky. However, from playing aggro faie for dailies, I’ve never felt the card to be too stronk, it’s always felt like a calculated risk. Maybe less so in control variants.


#19

Seems like noone has a lot of compassion for variax players these days. I can kind of understand that. It’s like a Reva player complaining about Entropic Gaze…


#20

Sure if they were cass, he probably had a ramp variax deck as well and still lost… Which would really be sad.