Certain Vanar minions need a definite buff (as well as kara)

  • Like the borean bear. It’s pretty garbage. I say up it’s health by one. I very, very seldom see them played.

  • Same with the rhyno. It’s epic but it’s way too slow and I havent seen one played in weeks. Up its health by one or maybe even two? definitely one though.

  • Huldra is pretty trash. Not sure what do with this one but maybe lower its cost by one mana?

  • To make cryogenesis viable again perhaps give the minion it pulls to your action bar + 1/1?

  • Myriad…eh. Not sure what do with this one.

  • Frostiva should definitely be given an extra health imo. It’s far too sweet a card to have its overall performance be so limited. An extra health is a much needed fix imo.

As for Kara, I say we make her bbs give an additional health to vespyr minions, which would make vespyr decks viable again. She could be a “faction general” of sorts. I don’t think this would be too strong with the current meta and the overall mehness of most vespyr minions.



At the least, I can say Frostiva is fine. She had issues when Kron was competing with her, but that’s not longer a case. A 3/3 Forcefield that spawns 3/3s with Vespyr synergy is pretty solid. It requires hard removal or a dispel, because even getting 1 or 2 minions from her makes her efficient. More so if Kara’s BBS is thrown in as well.


Buffing the creatures in a faction with some of the best removal spells in the game seems unwise. I do agree on a tweak for kara’s bbs.


borean - I agree but I don’t think game will benefit in any real significant way from it getting better. There is already enough vespyr synergy and even if the card got slightly better it probably wouldn’t change much in that regard.

ryhno - If the sotw remained unnerfed I’d call ryhno fine. IIRC it even was played in certain slower decks mainly because it combo-ed with the card. But yeah, card is now pretty bad. However, if I were to buff it I wouldn’t do it in any significant way. Got to be careful with celerity effects.

huldra - Card is fine. It’s just made for the archetype which is currently bad ie combo vanar. I actually thought people would give it a shot now when shroud is in the game but guess not.

cryo - As much as I hate to say it, card is fine. It’s fair, and yeah, fair usually isn’t good enough to find it’s place in competitive decks but not all cards should be top tier.

myriad - I don’t see the problem with the card. It’s not great, but it doesn’t seem bad either. I think more time is needed to establish how good exactly is it.

frostiva - Card’s fine. Community apparently loathes force field. Let’s not give them a reason to cry about it even more by buffing a card that is borderline playable or is most likely playable but just underrated.

Kara’s BBS is fine, it just needs a tiny bit more cards that support it. And if it were to get changed (again), it shouldn’t be in such a one dimension way. It’s just an awful game design.


So we just don’t buff minions that never, ever see play because it wouldn’t have that much effect (bear) ?


also, I don’t think a legendary that has so much potential to make vespyr decks viable should be tossed to the wayside as “borderline playable”. How does that help the game? Why have a faction with so many crappy minions? My vanar decks always have more neutrals than any of my other decks, and this really ruins the flavor and immersion imo.

  • Borean bear: not for early game in fact :frowning: it would work great in mid or late game w Frosti & voice of the wind spamming vespyrs. Can’t ask too much from just a common card.
  • Agree w you on the Rhyno. Too slow and too situational, enemy can easily run away from their field. It only works great w Lightning Blitz, hide it behind your back then throw it to the other side next turn.
  • Huldra is fine actually. The effect is unique, but we can only include one copy, to apply on big vespyrs, like Arctic (if it’s still alive…) :slight_smile:
  • Cryo is expensive to play. We have tons of other cheap removal already.
  • Trying hard to make Myriad work too. It’s doing quite okay in my Wallnar deck, one or two walls can do a big difference when Winter’s Wake is out. (from 4 to 7 damage each).


I think kara either A:needs a few more swarming type cards (IE more good wall spells :wink:) Or B: have her bbs changed to +1/2

The bbs change would allow for some very powerful plays, like summoning four 1/3 provoke gravity wells to lock your opponent down. which is significant because their general and most commonly used two drops can’t clear them. Harder to clear gravity wells in tandem with pumped or even un buffed blistering spines would present a very awkward situation for you opponent.


I’ve been trying kara wall for a bit of matches now, and what I can say about this card is… that’s kinda awkward.
The thing is that it counter-synergize with kara BBS since you need to play it unbuffed to make bloodsurge proc…then you got some nice buffed wall in a random place…

The only time I felt it might be “ok” was when i managed to pull out 2 of them and started to spawn walls near the enemy general… but even then…

Basically it can be good, maybe, if your only strategy is to aim for the winter’s wake


I’d rather not hit the buff button too hard with respect to Vanar. Borean Bear is the only card on the list that is actually particularly not great- and to that I end the whole thread could be summed up with the suggestion “give Borean Bear +1 Health”, which is very reasonable. But Rhyno, Huldra, Cryo, Myriad and Frostiva are all good cards that exist in the same cardpool as Gravity Well and Razorback. And to that end, pushing them would be dumb. Like, REALLY dumb.

If you’re having trouble building or playing Vespyrs, we could have an awesome thread about that to work on sharpening the strategy though! It’s definitely one of the more skill intensive ways to go about playing Vanar :smiley:


the rhyno’s garbage lol.


Compared to what? It’s a 5 drop that pays for it’s own weight in stats and has a relevant ability- played in the same faction as Lightning Blitz, Boundless Charge, Wailing Overdrive, and Aspect of the Drake. Celerity with any of those is super tricky. Rhyno is almost always just a straight up check play- and if the opponent trades a card or more into it, you’re cruising at regular EV.

If you get to go off with it and SotW, even better. It just has a fine baseline- and escalates quickly.


I just want Cryo to cost three again…


I haven’t seen one played in so long I can’t even remember the last time I saw one. No one ever uses it. it’s too slow, at 5 mana it dies way too easy.

Whens the last time youve seen one played against you?

It’s just a shit minion. Too low health.


All things considered, that’s an awful metric. I haven’t seen many Reaper of the Nine Moons in the last 4 months, but it’s still an insanely good minion that demands respect. Rhyno is probably undersupported, there aren’t really enough tricks to setup the second Celerity movement to reach across after someone is on your side of the board etc. But that’s a matter of the unit being undersupported or an archetype it would build not having the tools to make it work.

But really, look at the other 5 mana minions in the game. Rhyno’s right on par. It isn’t a sponge like Ironcliffe or Nimbus- but those are the exceptions, not the rule. You play it because you want threatening fatty. Answering it puts your opponent behind on tempo. Not answering it allows you to use a combo. The playability is there. Maybe instead of trying to buff one of the most powerful factions, you could try building and experimenting with the cards? The community is small, you may even find a rogue deck that shakes the meta a little.


I don’t consider it a buff to a faction when your making underpowered cards playable (not op). It’s just a needed rework.


Frostiva is allright IMO, key is to not get silenced or hard-removed (easy to say xD)
Borean Bear… I don’t know, buffing it could result in it being overplayed
Rhyno is slow as fuck, in practice there are more usefull options
Cryogenesis was just stupid at 3 cost, it could win you the early game outright
Myriad is underwhelming as all hell


except for the fact that they nerfed sotw. i still have no idea why they nerfed that, of all the cards.


You don’t do you play Vanar regularly??? It was nerfed when shmzir was released because cards like lighting blitz and wailing overdrive would have made a broken combo with it.


i’m a vanar main and i don’t think 1 mana makes much of a difference in that situation. it just made the rhino combo unplayable


Borean Bear: Getting one from Vespyric call early on is like winning the lottery. These are some of the best units to get from call, but they are mediocre elsewhere. Perhaps 1/4? Or even 2/3 would be good.

Frost Horn Rhyno: It’s bad. I guess it exists in a faction with access to a lot of buff spells, but you are better off using Dagger Kiri in Songhai if you want Celerity combos. It is most likely the worst of the “celerity-esque” minions, since, unlike the others, it neither has good additional effects nor the ability to attack/ be useful immediately. I suggest a complete rework. Something like: 5 mana, 5/6. Your starting side is now your opponent’s starting side and visa-versa.

Huldra: She’s actually not half bad. She fills a pretty key Mana slot for Vespyr decks and enables some pretty neat combos. I would just give her flying and +1 health and call it a day.

Myriad: Such a pity that such a cool sprite gets wasted in such a bland minion. Most of the other Bloodsurge Minions have either relevant or hilarious effects and this one just… sits there. I would change it to 4 mana 4/4, Bloodsurge: summon 2 gravity wells next to the enemy general.

Frostiva: I have been running a few of these in my Vespyr decks and they have been performing quite well, especially if I manage to get a Glacial elemental on the board. This, Glacial Elemental, and Voice of the Wind makes for truly spectacular Vespyr combos.