What is lost here regarding
Ziran’s lategame is that it is one and the same with her early game. Only difference is you generally get more heal procs or more cards to capitalize on said procs per turn due to the increase in available mana.
This concept encapsulates the difference between a good ziran player and a mediocre one- the good player can usually eke out multiple procs per turn during the early game whereas a novice won’t match that output until 6 mana or later
after reading the OP
…you mean nobody had complained about Heal Zir’an openly before? No way.
in risk of being self-aware, is this the post we make after we get tired of shitting on the latest OP vet strat?(azure, thunderproj, fault)
Except Oath on curve is almost as bad as casting Desolator on curve.
(Dons Jim Jeffrey’s voice: “That’s not good”)
I’d say it’s still pretty decent if you have a Lancer on board.
Healyonar is definitley the new wine. 4/5 last matches.
You have no idea what you are talking about here…ziran got nothing lategame.If both get there with an empty board ziran will be weak.The sole reason she can still control later on is that the lead she builds up early usualy transitions.Hoever once your opponent turned the control of th board around just once,youre finished unless hes low HP or playing right into your aoe
my knowledge of healyonar comes from playing many times against the 2 best healyonar players in the game, kieran and powinthekissa. one of which (kieran) is on my team wars team and I have done a lot of testing with them regarding that deck and it’s matchups. it is absolutely strong in the lategame, at least if played well.
From my experience healyonar generally loses if they get to kategame without an advantageous position.Its not good lategame if they get strong there by taking the advantage they got during the earlygame there.With that logic i could say aggro kaleos has a good lategame because he usually brings quite some stuff from the earlystages to the lategame (for kaleos anything 3mana+ he plays is usually a massive threat).
it isn’t that it is strong lategame because of teh advantages they gain during the early game, it is strong lategame because of all the combos that they can pull of with all the mana they now have. I lose far more frequently when I get to lategame vs ziran with an even boardstate/handsize than i do early game, maybe you are just playing differently to pow and kieran, but against them getting to the lategame is practically a death sentance.
I mainly play kaleos…and i usually win against ziran.I abuse my mobility,play my stuff out of their range so that they can,t fight and heal and lategame i force trades with zendo who is also out of range.They can deal with zendo but its expensive for them and prevents the from building up their own advantage.Maybe its different with decks that cannot kite zir,an all day…but i still doubt that it can beat fault lategame unless its sitting right on zirixs face
I also ususally win against ziran, but that is more due to the fact that the vast majority of players are really bad at the game, even the ones who make it into s. as for it beating fault lategame (given both players are of equal skill), I would put it more around 50/50 with it varying depending how the early game went, which is pretty crazy given how good fault’s endgame is.
Both Pow and key have this uncanny power with Zir’an to survive whatever you throw at them, eke out advantages of an extra heal proc here and come back from disadvantages. They also both know how to play Zir’an in a range of styles, not just the monkey mode Flameblood Warlock deck that I like that was used as an example in the top post, I’ve seen things like Synja and Blue Conjurer from these guys, they care about the lategame and know how to get there and what to do once they’re there. Like Blob said, the longer the games goes the more mana and heal tiles you will have, this means more heal procs, which Zir’an thrives off, since it double dips offence and defence for her. There are definitely late game threats that Zir’an can struggle with (EMP into Zendo is pretty good) but arguing they don’t have viable lategame from an even board state rings untrue to me.
Obviously there are decks with a better endgame, but if the Zir’ans you’re playing against don’t ever have a good lategame at all then it’s probably because they tuned their decks toward the early game and are not playing the deck to it’s skill ceiling.
I feel like one of them wrote something about Blue Conjurer being something of a must have (or close to it) in Healyonar a while ago, but were unable to convince other people at the time when it was written. Something to do with providing late game card draw and having a big body to use the heal procs on.
I’ve tweaked mine to roughly the same haven’t tried the prophet yet, pulled a sunforge lancer though seems good, why no immo, it’s doing serious work for me at the mo
I constantly change the deck, switching cards back and forth. Now I play manaforger in place of prothet and immo in place of vitriol. Still bad.
what are the issues you notice that make it non viable, i’m deffo having problems playing out my hand and a bit of reach but the burst damage is insane
Not fast enough to be Aggro, not much lategame to be Control, not enough tempo plays to be tempo.
In my version I have no problems with Draw though.
as an average player, ziran really is much stronger when piloted by better players. if i play long enough during healyonar heights, i see the same players who i beat and the same players i keep losing to. it honestly feels like chess.
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