Would you mind elaborating on that? What are you seeing that we don’t?
Can we talk about Daemonic Lure? (Abyssian skill)
Abyssian doesn’t have a natural dispel, yeah. But they have a lot more option to deal with threats. For example, even when losing with only 1 hp leaf, Abyssian can recover with a lot of life still option, units, spells, etc. Do I need to talk about Bloodmoon and Shadowdancer combo?
Read the last response, ah and I forgot about sister Kelaino to restore some more HP.
That really doesn’t explain anything.
You probably should as that archetype is probably the least used and no one finds it to be an issue. Well, not no one it seems.
To use the bloodmoon preiestess + shadowdancer combo you have to play blodmoon priestess with a board advantage, wait a turn and have it unanswered and then finally proceed to play the shadowdancer. Think that bloodmoon priestess is a 3/3 for 4 and shadowdancer is a 4/4 for 5, if you play them without board advantage they are very heavily understatted and may cost you the game or a very uphill battle. Yes, if you have both on board its a huge win condition, but that is possibly Abyssian’s most powerful play that only happens if you opponent doesnt draw into one of the many multiple answers to that combo AND you draw into the combo, which includes both of those cards and a way to establish and maintain a board. Also, lowering the curve to the point that the board is not such an uphill battle to fight normally means to run out of resources very fast
this guy thinks abyssian is the most op faction LOL. I’M DONE
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I guess this community is like that, if someone dares to go against their ez win strategies, they will call you troll, that you are crazy, etc. I guess is imposible to talk about balance here or even express an opinion that is different from others. I’m giving possible balance solution, that’s all.
Also, I’m main vetruvian and only play vetruvian, from 10 games I have lost, 8 are against abyssians, that’s why I think they need a balance, not a nerf, balance.
No, it’s just that the steam release basically that everyday we have 2-3 “nerf please” posts. Sorry if it seems rude but basically every single card have been called out as OP and this is kinda funny for some experienced/veteran players, that’s just it.
This is a forum and ofc everyone is entitled to share his opinion. Mine on daemonic lure is that it’s fine if that matters, just think that with just 1 more mana you can ritual banish a minion removing the threat forever
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Maybe the vetruvian deck you play has a bad matchup against abyssian. That is not indicative that abyssian needs a balance change. Every deck has good matchups and bad matchups, and also 10 losses is not a sample size big enough to justify a point.
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Ok. First of, Swarm abyssian isn’t considered a very strong archetype due to many new global removals and aoes added in the last patches such as: Blistering Skorn, thumping wave, frostburn and many others i can’t think of right now. Just go through the card collection and you will find plenty more.
Second, as far as removal is concerned, abyssian really is on the weak side.
They have some full removals in Dark Transformation and Ritual banishing. The first one is pretty expensive and doesn’t negate dying wishes, meaning it can’t really be used on Aymara healers and such. The second one is only usable in swarm abyssian which suffers from the fact that it is pretty hard to maintain a board in this aggressive meta and is one of the weakest archetypes. Ritual banishing also triggers dying wishes. Abyssian also doesn’t have an infaction dispell OR transformation spell, meaning that even magmar, which doesn’t have an actual ‘dispell’ card but multiple transform spells has better dispell tools. Demonic Lure really is Abyssians best tool for those cards.
As a Vetruvian you even have astral phasing as a pretty good tech card vs demonic lure, not to mention that abyssian doesn’t have much counterplay to aymara. Kelaino is a problem after the siphon nerf, your best bets are starfire scarab and ephemereal shroud.
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Swarm abyssian is one of the weaker general when it comes to"serious" play.
It is very easy to remove the wraithlings with skorn or any faction specific nuke, and it lacks strong low cost minions, so getting enough breathing room to get the priestess and dancer out is much harder than you make it sound.
There are cases where repulsor beast is better than lure:
It leaves a body behind and ignores spells shield.
It’s fine to have a strong and different opinion.
It’s not fine to have a strong and different opinion and using extremely vague elaboration to justify it and then blaming the community for not taking you seriously. Sorry, but you got no one to blame but yourself.
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Hey. Jumping in.
Abyssian does not need a rebalance. As some have already stated, there are tons of removals usable against them. Skorn, Pando, this, that, I can’t list them all.
Abyssians, like all factions, are tricky to deal with once they start to have the right set up. But, that’s the whole point. Abyssians can not win if you disrupt them early enough, or just everytime they throw a threat like Kelaino ( and not Keliano ) or Bloodmon, and so on. They are all easy to take out. But you have to. Abyssian will stomp you if you don’t manage to gain control before them. Or at least STOP them from getting it. And really, it’s easier than the other factions to stop them. Dispel one unit and they’re done. Destroy one, they’re done. Abyssian plays around key units or artifacts.
You’re a Vet dude, right ? You should actually be able to wreck them, even without Siphon Energy. Blast, Obelysks. More than enough. Get some Skorns. They’re generally speaking good anyway and will help you a lot deal with Wraithlings.
Anyway, remember this : you’re new. You can’t possibly understand perfectly how the balance works. And aside from SpellHai, everything is balanced. And sometimes, I even wonder if SpellHai is OP.
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#BronzeProblems
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Actually, I’m diamond.
Perhaps you only find that card irritating due to the decks you play. I can see this card being a pain to play against as Lyonar midrange and Vetruvian, since these factions like big minions and have few relocation options. However, the card is very mediocre against faster decks with many small minions or decks that can get their minions back like Vanar. For example, I hate Blazehound since I personally like slower decks, but that card is very easy to deal with, and even benifitial towards you, if you are aggro. Just because it happens to beat the kind of decks that you happen to be playing doesn’t mean that it is overpowered.
In my opinion, the card is very balanced overall and offers a new, interesting type of removal. Maybe Abyssian just so happens to be a bad matchup against your particular deck. Try a few other things before rushing to conclusions.
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I understand how you feel, as someone who plays Abyssian a lot; luring away an aymara healer or a nimbus can be game winning. To deal with lure specifically, avoid playing one large minion, and play multiple smaller minions. Also, try to play in the center of the board, so corner minions can reach you more easily. Against Abyssian in general, my advice is to play a strong early game and attempt to burst them down. It can be hard for Abyssian to deal with pax, falcius, and inner oasis (if you run it), or obelysk spam. Either don’t play aymara at all, or understand that playing it means the Abyssian player has to spend 2 mana that turn on luring it, which you can convert to an advantage, given you already have a stronger board and HP.
Probably one of the more subtle but important points to understand about Abyssian is that they will often keep lure in hand, which places a limit on their potential plays. It’s pretty bad early and midgame, for reasons others have mentioned.
Some tech choices:
-Rasha’s curse, hard counter to spectral blade and can reach pesky abyssals in the corner, or can push for damage
-Psychic conduit - amazing against kelaino (you can heal a lot for yourself, damage kelaino, and also bring kelaino in closer), also good against songhai
-Star’s fury - not really a tech choice, but is seeing some more use (based upon my anecdotal experiences), pushes for a LOT of damage that Abyssian often can’t handle. It’s an aggressive win condition.
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The best way to beat abyss swarm is to manage swarm proactively and kill their infinite value generators. Their burst is nasty, but requires a board to exist. Rushing to control the game early, forcing them to expel answers from their hand eventually forcing them to use Rite will usually win you the game. The above strategy works very well against Lillithe (As someone who mainly plays her I’ve lost plenty a game that way) and at least marginally well against Cassyva. There’s not much else to say that the others haven’t. Good luck in the future (So long as you don’t beat me). Just like concede against me.
I think you should play the game a while longer and perhaps reach higher ranks before you can talk about balance.
Lure is perfectly fine. While versatile it’s also a situational removal as it doesn’t really remove the target, only stalls. Repulsor can be better at times and is a neutral option.
Perhaps it’s better to ask the community for help with countering tips rather than talking nerfs and balance. I’m sure your questions can be answered here.
Cheers.