Can Duelyst stop trying to be Hearthstone?


#1

Now I’ve been playing this game for over a year now and have had a lot of faith in its direction; I have no biases but to me the design of certain aspects of the game (especially within the last 3-4 months) just tells me they are trying too hard to emulate Hearthstone. Let’s see here:

The addition of ‘hero powers’.
Cardbacks. (Which imo is completely out of context in this game)
A ‘premium’ aesthetic aka Prismatics, (see above)
The change of their rarity symbol to be more circular. (?)
The addition of literally Molten Giant. Practically verbatim. (See Blood Taura)

To me it comes off as a lack of creativity, cheap, and a bit desperate. What made this game great was that it had its own identity, recently I haven’t been getting that vibe. People may or may not agree but it somewhat lowers the overall quality of the game when content like this is being released.


#2

I mean it’s a more powerful Molten Giant with Taunt. Warlock would KILL for that. But yeah, they do seem to be borrowing from Hearthstone a little bit much. I’d love for them to experiment with other things that only they can do, like more tile effects for different factions and hopefully they’ll do something like that in the new expansion but so far nothing.


#3

I agree only with card backs and rarity symbol. Your 5th point is especially groundless. There are many cards damn similar to the HS, but they are different, you know


#4

I don’t really agree with your points that Duelyst is trying to be Hearthstone. In fact, in my honest opinion, I think Duelyst is better than Hearthstone (but keep in mind this is just MY opinion, not looking for feedback). And to reiterate, all of the following is just MY opinion, you can think whatever you want, but I’m just stating my position on your claims, as you have on this forums post.

Your first point, the addition of so called “hero powers”. They aren’t the same as Hearthstones hero powers, in fact, they don’t even have the same name as Hearthstone’s hero powers, they’re called Bloodborn Spells. They added more deck types to people to experiement with. Just because they might seem similar to Hearthstone’s hero powers doesn’t mean that Duelyst is trying to be them.

Your second point, cardbacks. Cards have backs and I don’t see why Duelyst can’t get to show their card’s backs without being accused of copying Hearthstone, its not like Hearthstone invented cards.

Your third point, prismatics. They are basically cards with rainbow effects on the cards and they give you additional dust. They are similar to Heartstone’s golden cards, but so what? Why does Duelyst have to be trying to be Hearthstone to add cards like this to the game…

Your fourth point, chaning the rarity symbol to be more circular. I think they did that to fit more with the UI, and I like them as much as i liked the old rarity symbol. Again, Hearthstone didn’t invent rarity symbols, and Duelyst should be able to change their card backs whenever they want without being accused of copying Hearthstone. Unless you can tell me exactly why they changed the symbols, I’m afraid I can’t see any reason why Duelyst would be copying Hearthstone in making their rarity symbol rounder (and yes, i have played Hearthstone and seen their rarity symbols before).

Your fifth point, the addition of molten giant. Blood Taura is not Molten Giant. First of all, Duelyst has 5 less health points than Hearthstone, making you have to get a lower health total to be able to at least use it. This game also goes up to 1 mana less than Hearthstone, which is just more evidence to my point above. Second of all, this minion is not an 8/8, but a 12/12. In addition, it has provoke, while molten giant is just an 8/8. I don’t see why you would think this is Molten Giant besides the text on it that relates to your general’s/hero’s health to get a discount.


#5

Also going to have to disagree here. There is a chain that could be followed here…if Duelyst is “trying to be” HS, then there are probably 5 games Hearthstone is “trying to be” like, and if you wanted to be really pedantic, it all goes back to Magic.

Foils/Golds/Prismatics/premium cosmetic versions of cards are part of every card game I know (I’m sure there’s one somewhere where that’s not a thing)…I think the card back implementation is clunky blah blah like everyone else said, but this is a potential stream of revenue for CP. Specifically, and this is important, it’s potential revenue stream that you can completely disregard and not buy into. I highly doubt CP sat around thought “gee, how can we be more like HS?”

As others have stated, Duelyst sets itself apart in many ways. It’s not the first card game. It’s not the first card game to use a board with figures moving around. It’s not the first pixel art game. But damn, it’s a great game and they have created something unique, even if certain individual elements are not completely original on their own.


#6

I think both are true. Duelyst is better than HS (in many ways, not all.) And Duelyst borrows a lot from HS.

Frankly, I don’t think this is due to a lack of creativity. It is to make it easier for HS players to transition to Duelyst. This is the only reasonable explanation I can come up with for why so many things were copied exactly as opposed to being slightly changed. I mean, a pack didn’t have to be “5 cards with at least 1 rare” it could have been 4 cards or 6 cards. Or it could have cost not exactly 100 gold. The Gauntlet could have not cost exactly 150 gold. And so forth.

There are certainly many differences, but I think the things that are the same are there for familiarity. And it makes sense, if you think about it. The lower the learning curve, the easier for people to pick this up.

FTR, I am now 4 days into Duelyst after playing HS for 5 days. The familiarity did say to me “lack of creativity” at first, but now I see the reason for it.

Also, and I know this will make me unpopular, but I think the complaining about card backs is overdone. Fine, they weren’t there before, now they are. It adds 2 seconds to each card being played. It’s not a big deal and IMO the asthetic of them is nice.


#7

But I think those similarities aren’t copying. I suppose I can’t say for certain, because I don’t know how CP made their decisions or what drove them to do what, but things like the card packs: those are based on probabilities and distributions, I’m sure There’s a reason it is what it is…because packs of 4 or 6 wouldn’t work the same way. It would be fundamentally different, and would change the economy of the game. Just because it’s the same doesn’t mean it’s copied. Same thing with the costs of packs and gauntlet runs.

Another way to look at this is that the rest of the economy. The quest system is different, there’s a concept of tipping, and it’s easier to get gold by playing than it is in HS (in small amounts, but it adds up). This means that those packs and gauntlet runs are slightly easier to purchase without real world money. If they were trying to “copy” HS, they would have adjusted the prices of those packs and tickets to match the rate at which players could get the in game currency.

The point of this is to say that you have a good point with the sense of familiarity, but I think there’s more to it than that.

Finally, I couldn’t echo your point more about card backs. I’m also very sick of hearing about the card backs (I recognize that I mentioned them in my post, but they were in response to OP’s comments), and I also don’t think they’re a huge hiccup in the game. Sure, there would be better ways to implement, but I don’t think what exists now is the worst thing in the world – certainly not worth the flack that the Devs have caught. We can just sit over here in this dark lonely corner that isn’t upset about the card backs.


#8

I agree there are many differences and important ones. But there are a lot of small details that are exactly the same as HS even though they could easily have been slightly changed. E.g. why are the rarity colors exactly the same? Even moreso, why change from the cool Duelyst symbol to the generic oval/gem used by HS?

Gauntlet/Arena: 150 gold, exactly. 30 cards, exactly. 12 wins or 3 losses, exactly. These all could have been changed slightly to at least have it not appear that they were copying HS. They didn’t, and I think it’s because of the reason I mentioned.


#9

Those “hero powers” added so much variety and fun to the game and made it in general just better. And that’s not only just my opinion but a general consensus. I hope you won’t argue how adding features thatr are good for the game shouldn’t be added because you think they’re being copied or whatever?[quote=“Nittany, post:1, topic:989”]
Cardbacks. (Which imo is completely out of context in this game)
[/quote]

Won’t argue much with this one. But then again, maybe they just wanted another cosmetic feature in the game and it has nothing to do with HS.

Yeah because HS is the first game to invent foil cards.

It’s getting hard to follow your train of thought.

Except if you played HS, you would actually know how Molten Giant works and see that it’s quite different gameplay wise.

All in all, this looks like every other “Duelyst is obviously copying HS smh” thread. You hand pick certain things that are similar, name them then proceed to make a conclusion how the game is desperate. What are you people trying to accomplish by doing this? Hell, even if they were copying HS, so what? Game has it’s own identity and playstyle and if copying some proven to work features is what they think is good for the game so be it. Players are not some filthy hipsters that want the game to be unique for the sake of it at the cost of being bad.


#10

I am fan of shooters,With in 5 mins I can do decent in any shooter,I am fan of mmoprg with in about 15 mins I feel at home playing it.The same thing happens in fighting games and mobas.Why? Because good ones don’t try to reinvent the wheel they use what works.

Nothing is wrong with use what works especially if it will help the game.The card Blood Taura is copy of Molten Giant but CP already had chance to see Molten Giant fail in HS and correction Blizzard make so why not use that knowledge instead of trying to make something different that could be broken or not work like Starhorn.Starhorn sucks and perfect solution exists to fix him why not use what works already.I have played dozen of pyro mage and alot of them have played the same.Why shouldn’t counterplay use solution right in front of them.

Basically steal the good things and avoid the same mistakes HS .Hearthstone is duelyst big brother, Just like Magic is Hearthstones big brother.


#11

I am going to have to disagree with you… sorry if I repeat what others say.

Duelyst generals don’t really have ‘hero powers’, but a spell that can only be used on certain turns and are effected by most spell-effects (ex: arcanysts and mana vortex). In hearthstone, you can use your hero power at anytime using 2 mana, not 1.

I don’t see how the rarity shape makes it anymore like hearthstone, last I checked they don’t own circles. They are also more oval shaped in the first place (my brother plays it, so I should know :slight_smile:)

Regarding cardbacks and prismatics… even the rarity mentioned above didn’t come from hearthstone. It seem that all online card games have to be compared to hearthstone, when in reality MtG (magic the gathering) was the first. They had rarities, card backs that you could put on cards, and they had their own form of prismatics/shiny cards that were worth more. They weren’t even the only ones: Pokemon and Yu Gi Oh also had the same stuff to an extent. So is Duelyst being more like hearthstone, or is it following one of the basic card game trends?
Molten giant and blood tuara have some similarities when it comes to effect, but stats wise (an 8/8 to a 12/12 provoke) and the fact that Duelyst has 9 mana, not 10, makes the card harder to use. I don’t think that CPG is trying to be uncreative by experimenting with cards based on damage and your health.

I want to end off by reiterating this: Duelyst shares similarities to hearthstone, but a lot of those similarities came from card gets like MtG as well. I bet that if you looked it up, MtG has a card with an effect similar to Molten Giant or Blood Tiara.


#12

Yes, it’s called the Avatar of Hope. (It costs 6 less if you have 3 life or less and was released in 2003.)

It’s really not an invention of HS :>


#13

What would you suggest in your own opinion CP should have done as a replacement to the things they have copied from HS?
Do you have an alt suggestion to BBS, the premium aesthetic, and card-backs?


#14

So many rhetorical questions.


#15

I believe the only thing they actually retained from HS was the mana/core system. Everything else existed way before Hearthstone.


#16

I think card frames rather than backs is a good idea.

I would love to have seen them make Gauntlet a bit cheaper. HS has casual play, ranked, adventures and arena. Duelyst only has ranked and gauntlet. In lieu of more game modes they should make it a bit easier to use the two that are present. And not using exactly the same number of wins/losses would have made it seem a bit less like copying.

I think they should have left the rarity symbols. Nothing was accomplished by changing them other than prompting the sort of “copying from HS” accusations in this thread. They were cooler before and any HS player would recognize the colors anyway.


#17

Fun fact: Did you know that back in the early stages of the game, Spirit Orbs (then simply called Booster Packs) had 6 cards in them? Or that for a long time during beta, gauntlet runs were capped at 9 wins before people complained that they wanted to play more games with their decks?

There are certain things that work for certain games, and in online CCG circles Hearthstone is the one to compare to. Blizzard has a very large budget for testing, so we can assume that they played around with things like number of cards per pack or length of arena runs fairly extensively. Thus, is it really any surprise that Counterplay has converged on similar answers?

I don’t have that much else left to add, and don’t want to turn this into an echo chamber. @akurane and others have already laid out those arguments well enough.


#18

Well yes it has a SOME things like in hearthstone and one more thing…

THE DEVELOPERS ARE TRYING TO MAKE A UNIQUE GAME NOT THERE PROBLEM THERE IS ANOTHER GAME WHIT EQUAL FEATURES :rage: :rage: :rage:


#19

Sorry i got trigered :cry:


#20