Bloodfire - You know what's coming next


#1

When Shimzar came out, i pulled 3 Spinecleavers from my Preorder-packs. I then proceeded to try it in Practice Mode, and considered its effect to be really cool. So i decided to build around it. Lets analyse Spinecleaver:

Advantages: Inevitability. Once you have a Totem or 2 (or 5) they are really hard to get rid of and will proceed to produce damage without you investing ressources. The damage also isn’t as low as it seems, one totem basically equals an average 2 Drops attack. (since it pings twice in one ‘round’, while a Mystic for example only attacks on your turn.

Neutral: The Totem Bodyblocks. That can be good for hindering your opponent, but you might also happen to trap yourself. Overthinking your Totem positioning is pretty crucial. (its humiliating to trap oneself, trust me lol)

Disadvantages:

  1. It’s slow. Most other decks win by far faster.
  2. Spinecleaver is a huge tempo loss
  3. You lose lots of health in the process of setting your wincon up

Looking at all that stuff, my basic idea was to use Spinecleaver + Sajj to control the field with Sajjs BBS and stall the game with Provokes + Heals to survive longer than my opponent.

This is the List, i am currently Toying around at diamond 4, with sth. around 50% winrate. After all its more of a fun and memey list than something hightier competitive.

List

Card Choices:

Scions First wish: Well, this card is just amazing in almost every Vet deck. It cycles through your deck (which lets me find my spinecleavers) bumps up by Wood-wens and shrouds to 3/3, and helps me to not get behind in the early game. Builds up tempo for me to waste by playing Cleaver.

Shroud: I don’t want to use Siphon and Lightbenders but need Dispell. Siphons make me run out of cards way to fast without Draw considering that i am in for the very late game. Lightbenders aren’t great with all the Totems, even worse than for Structure Vet.

Wood-wen: Experimental pick. I honestly didn’t have a better idea for a third 2-drop, and Wen seemed to fit the gameplan of stalling out. Not great but also not terrible. Hasn’t that many Targets.

Mystic: Obvious Choice. Is a 2-drop, helps my early game, heals my general, has good stats. Going once, going twice, going a third time, sold.

Rashas Curse: One of the silent MVPs of Vetruvian in General imo. Basically is a 2 Mana 2/2 Rush, Airdrop, Opening Gambit: Destroy a random artifact on the enemy general. Regalia, ranged minions, and bloodrage masks are annoying for our wincon, Rashas helps a lot. Hold on to this vs. Lyonar and Songhai.

Second Wish: Works decently well with all the provokes and can help in the early game. Not great but solid.

Psychic Conduit: Wanted to try this out as a removal option. Hasn’t been too flashy. Has synergy with hexblade though.

Wildfire Ankh: By nature of the deck i want to do lots of things and stuff with sajj. Range and the ability to hit multiple things at once help.

Falcius: No explanation needed, Nobrainer.

Artifact Hunter: Soo… This is an experimental pick as well. I didn’t have any 4-Drops outside of Dioltas. Reason being, Lightbenders fuck my wincon up severely, Emeralds make my slow deck even slower (an early iteration of this was running them, it basically took it half an hour to do 25 damage). But i often didn’t draw into my wincon in time. This has an ass body, but almost always draws me a card i want. Might replace this + Conduit for Siphon + Lkian.

Dioltas: Best 4-drop for this deck. Stalls, has synergy with second wish, is just good in general. Allomancer doesn’t do sth for this deck, the provoke is by far better.

Hexblade: Should be a 2- or even 3 of, but i only have one. This is insanely good. It reduces the damage you take while clearing the board, can push some face damage to the enemy general, Makes removing stuff easier, and can even set up for a Conduit (even though that scenario is rather unrealistic).

Grovekeeper: Techpick due to the lack of hexblades. Doesn’t really do the same thing, but gets rid of provokes, and provokes are annoying since i want to pick my targets myself for spinecleaver and my BBS to work properly. Also is a Provoke itself which is nice. Overall to be replaced though.

Kron: A good neutral provoke that produces value. The holy grail for this type of deck. Might want a third one.

Aymara: Heals, provokes and damages. Nobrainer.

Circle of Dessication (or sth. like that): Just a useful board clear that spares our wincon. Not good vs Artifact Vetruvian, but other than that can often save your ass.

Matchups:
Well… You are weak to aggro decks, especially the burn iterations, not so much the zoo ones. Spellhai is an autoloss, Combohai is a pretty good matchup (provokes ftw). Healyonar is annoying bc it’s basically just a stalemate, standard Lyonar is a kinda good one, even though Lyonar has the most ways to deal with your Totems and regalia . Other Vets are a neutral matchup i’d say, i could add Dom Wills instead of Circuits to improve it, Obelysks and enemy Aymaras can fuck you up. Shadow creep is pretty damn bad, since you don’t have sufficient ways to prevent creep generation (which is why i wanna run lightbenders). Magmar is a good Matchup, Wall/vespyr faie as well (Gravity wells and bonechills are free fodder, Spines are easy to kill as well), even though warbird fucks you over. Kara fucks you up, unless you can get a shitton of Totems in the midgame or can kill her with your minions somehow.

In general this really isn’t a great wincon, archetype or deck, but its pretty damn funny. Auroras tears might be a good alternate wincon, but idk, doesn’t really fit the general idea of the deck.


#2

(Working off here, found on Manaranks)

So I get that you really want to pull Spinecleaver as hard as you can, but you gotta realise that honestly, Spinecleaver is bordering on the edge of neutral / negative tempo. And it’s situational, but not too much so you don’t want to run 3.

As for Artifact Hunter, don’t you worry. You will draw your artifacts. One thing I don’t get is your total lack of card draw; you will need it after all. Other than that, looks like standard Vet to me with some tech choices.


#3

Don’t you worry Ryan, i swear i didn’t even look at your list, i was just using the cards that are good and support my wincon. Its not like using Kron and Aymara is uncommon.
I know that cleaver is a huge tempo loss. I know that there is no point to run 3 of it in a list that is made to be as efficient as it can be.
The whole point of this is to abuse Spinecleaver.
I don’t need draw since i will play on curve almost always. I would need draw if i had Siphons though, which is why i am debating the Lkian + Siphon for Hunter + Conduit switch.

Also yeah sure it has many commons with standard control vet, its the same archetype after all, just streamlined for Cleaver :stuck_out_tongue:


#4

Hey! :slight_smile: I’ve been experimenting with Spinecleaver as well with pretty reasonable results. Currently I have pretty decent win rate at Diamond 4. I don’t have the exact percentage but I played 5 games last night and won 4 out of 5 of them.

Some suggestions for your list.

-Rock Pulveriser, try replacing Wood-Wen for Pulveriser. It’s not meant to trade with other two drops but to stall out enemies from reaching you and buy time. It can generally buy you a turn depending on the board state which is great for building artifacts and maintaining artifacts.

-Tracer, probably one of the most important cards in an artifact deck. it synergies really well with both Spinecleaver and Ankh. It buys time by letting your general teleport away from stuff like Aymara Healers and Ironcliffs while letting Bloodfire Totems and your Ankh do your thing. I HIGHLY recommend you try this in your deck.

-Primus Shieldmaster(?), this is mostly something to consider since you already have Dioltas. Primus is great for protecting your general immediately unlike Dioltas which can be a really big deal when trying to maintain artifacts. However Dioltas, has much higher impact in general so it’s a tossup for which one you think is better.

-Time Maelstorm, I’m still experimenting with this card but the results look relatively promising so far. Time Maelstorm provides an alternate win con to your deck. You don’t have to rely on Bloodfires to bleed your opponent to death, you can take a more aggressive approach and combo out your opponent with Hexblade+Maelstorm 10 damage burst. Aside from letting you play more aggressively it’s great for running away while getting attack off with your Ankh as well as maintaining the board especially when combined with Ankh or Falcius.

These are some things that worked for me. I hope t helps you out a bit ^_^!


#5

Haha. I just remembered this one. Guess there really isn’t any innovative sajj decks? Even with little variations looks like Sajj will still fall into the core cards. :joy:


#6

Well i mean my deck has a variation of 17 cards from the one Ryan posted, i’d consider that enough variance :smiley:


#7

I just pulled Time Maelstrom and still looking to fit it in my deck. Do you think I can fit it with this list?


#8

The core vet cards are still there and I think there are little variations to make a viable one. Your deck still runs the cookie cutter choices as well which IMO is needed to make vet good. So all in all it really isn’t far off from the usual vet decks. There are also one offs which created the huge variance in cards but really it isn’t that much different :slight_smile:

To be fair I did not take Ryan’s deck as a basis as well.


#9

It doesn’t matter what the Variation consists of. Its a fact that this varies highly from standard Vet Control in that it:

  1. doesn’t run Nimbus
  2. doesn’t run Pax
  3. is more artifact orientated
  4. has a different wincon

You really don’t need to ‘pay it back’ to me. You literally took someones elses list, changed a few cards and posted it. I built this from a scratch with Spinecleaver not being a techchoice as it is in cookie cutter vet, but as a wincon. Sure, this list happens to have First wish, falcius and aymara, but what vet list Doesn’t ? Thats like saying your and my Magmar lists are the same bc they both run Makantor.

I also have my version of the standard control, and it plays highly different from this.


#10

Not here to argue but to me, the post you made is just so hypocritical after posting this one lol.
I did not claim that the idea is originally mine It is just modified list and I still needed to refine it further.

Anyway I just needed some help with the other thread just found this out and tried to reply. Have a nice day :joy:


#11

Yeah and i am pretty irritated that when i post a meme list that has 40% variance to Standard Control people accuse me of plagiarism.


#12

I think you’re better off without Maelstorm in that deck. You really need Hexblade and likely staff to make Time Maelstorm worth it otherwise your damage is way too low and it becomes a weak Tracer. Definitely test it out and see if it works for you but i think you need more artifacts for it to be really effective.


#13

If ellyr’s list differed by some amount, there was no need for you to shut them down. Yours may differ by more, but a 3 card difference in this game can be a big, important change.

To all y’all: if it isn’t the same exact list as one you’ve discussed, discuss it fairly. I get that many lists look like tweaked versions of decks some people have posted elsewhere, but let’s not kid ourselves in thinking Duelyst is complex enough that similarities couldn’t be great minds thinking alike. I’ve constructed several common ‘netdecks’ without ever looking at them before, simply because their designs were obvious, and I don’t feel the need to give credit to the first person to pin their name on the list.

With regards to this deck-- you’re using Psychic Conduit! Yay! #1 underrated card in vet right now imo. I agree with the suggested woodwen > pulverizer change, and I’d suggest artifact hunter > tracer. The lack of card draw does make piloting difficult, but most aggro opponents would make better use of a spelljammer than you could, so I’d disaggree with running spelljammer and the other draw options aren’t great enough that I’d consider replacing something with them. I’d consider your ‘flex spots’ to be grovekeeper and hexblade, and you could try running x2 entropic decay instead of those to see if the increased reliability is worth it.


#14

As for the first part, i didn’t mean that initial statement in a negative way, yet you are right that it wasn’t necessary, but its all good now, we talked to each other for a bit.

Thanks for your input, i already replaced Wen with Rock pulverizer. I am also testing tracer as a one of instead of Grovekeeper. Entropic might be something to consider, but i think Hexblade is better due to the synergy with spinecleaver.


#15

Thanks for that. We talked a bit too and somehow it got fixed. Can you look at my deck as well? I wanted to remove sojourners but can’t find a viable good 3 drop. Sometimes It just makes me over draw because the opponent kept hitting it. Sometimes I have no other good turn 3 plays and I just have to place it on board to have a presence at all.


#16